Post by JR Post by TianYue Post by TianYue Post by AF59
Not trying to Parrot anyone or anything.
1) Do you feel at all as if you failed in Eckankar?
2) Do you still think Eckankar, and the Eck masters (Klemp) were all
that they claimed? Is Eckankar authentic?
If these two questions are not intended to answer your questions,
AF59, please contemplate for me if ECKANKAR is a religious collective
intended to provide a religious experience or if it is simply a
resource to draw your own conclusions from in defining your Spiritual
Identity for yourself.
Hmm. Do you agree with the Eckankar doctrine that a person in the
physical body needs a master in the physical body to get the complete
link up to the sound current? That the chela needs the satguru? The
inner and outer master?
Or do you reject that, and believe that the master isn't necessary?
Please guide me to where this doctrine is in print published by
ECKANKAR. I do not recall seeing the word "doctrine" in the Shariyat-
KI-SUGMAD where I go to for the collective's authority on ECKANKAR
when I am not making my own "docrtine."
My doctrine meets, regarding the above concepts you name, on the same
ground as Evans-Wentz, Sri Harold Klemp, Sri Darwin Gross, Sri Paul
Twitchell, and the Judeo-Christian Bible. By the way, Sri Twitchell
has spoken that "when you need something, you become dominated by it."
Neither ECKANKAR or Richard Smith of Hawaii dominate me; nor would I
allow it if I thought they were trying to do so.
Here's some reading material for you:
The following quotes are from THE SHARIYAT KI SUGMAD Book One, by Paul
"The mission of true spirituality can only be carried on successully
the living ECK Master . . . whoever attempts to reach God can only go
through the Mahanta and not throught those who are seeking possession
of the world." pg. 135
"Only those who have received the Word in initiation can be given the
blessings of the SUGMAD through the Mahanta." pg. 137
[Those who doubt or follow other masters] "speak with false tongues
none but the living ECK Master has the authority to speak in the name
of the SUGMAD." pg. 138
"Those who need the living ECK Master will always stay with him, but
those who feel that they are beyond this are wrong in their thinking.
They have not examined the truth, and will go afoul of the illusions
established by the Kal." pg. 143
"The highway into the Kingdom of Heaven is narrow, and the way is
strewn with the spiritual corpses of those who have failed. Only
who give up all for the love of the Mahanta can ever reach the gates
paradise." pg. 125
"He who listens to the living ECK Master and obeys him will have his
love and will be freed of his wordly karma. He will enter into the
spiritual worlds a free Soul." pg. 125
"If the living Eck Master performs a miracle of healing, of bringing
justice, or giving one something of a material nature, be not
for it is in his nature to do such things when necessary . . . he is
the only one that can do such things. All others are false masters,
false prophets and false when they try to give and have no means to
give. No one but the living ECK Master is the divine channel for
gifts of God." pg. 125
"He who seeks to keep his life shall never have it. But whosoever
loses his life in the love of the Mahanta shall have it in eternity.
And whosoever shall give of his material life to the ECK shall have it
thricefold returned unto him in spiritual blessings. No man with
riches shall enter into the Kingdom of God, for he shall leave them on
earth with his temple of flesh and both shall rot away into oblivion."
" . . . the living ECK Master is the only one who truly knows what
is." pg. 126
"In order to understand the living ECK Master, stop talking, stop
thinking, stop analyzing him and his worldly actions, and then you
understand all things. If the chela will look for the Light and Sound
within the living ECK Master, all things will be revealed to him."
"Within the visions of the SUGMAD are the followers of ECKANKAR who in
some way or other betray the living ECK Master." pg. 132
[The living ECK Master]"knows how each will end his life upon this
earth, whether he will stray from the path or will be critical, upset
and unhappy with the Master and whether he will betray the Master
during his sojourn as an ECK chela." pg. 132
"The Mahanta is not concerned with what either the chela or the public
thinks about him. He expects misunderstandings to arise or the masses
to attack him, and he knows that some chelas, regardless of how much
love is poured upon them, will betray him because of their lack of
self-honesty." pg. 132
"Those who quarrel with the principles of ECK, or the knowledge of
and what the living ECK Master is to this world, had best examine
themselves." pg. 132
"No one can get his release from the net of karma with the living ECK
Master." pg. 118
"Until the chela becomes an initiate in the works of ECK he is unable
to know and understand that he is the slave of Kal Niranjan." pg. 119
"The ECK which can be perceived by those who are not chelas is only a
shadow of IT." pg. 121
[The chela]" . . . must never weaken nor waver in his love or loyalty
to the SUGMAD and the living ECK Master." pg. 113
"No man can reach God practicing any path except devotion to the
through the Mahanta." pg. 114
"There is no one else on earth but the Mahanta who can and will utter
the Word which liberates the chela and puts an end to his uncertainty.
He is the only one who can release Soul from Its prison in this world.
Otherwise there is no escape . . ." pg. 116
"The chela keeps wondering when he will reach that moment of meeting
with God. But it will never come for, if he would realize it, he is
already at that moment. Rather, he is at this focal point in eternity
for the SUGMAD is always with him, in the form of the living ECK
. . . God is with him all the time as the living ECK Master, every
moment of his life." pg. 92
"Therefore, the chela should recognize that if God is with him, then
the living ECK Master is always the presence he experiences
He should understand this and have it written upon his heart, for the
Mahanta is the vehicle God uses to reach every Soul who will listen.
This should be kept in mind constantly." pg. 92
"The chela must be dedicated to the ECK. Dedication is his greatest
asset. He must give this dedication to the Mahanta, the living ECK
Master, because he is the only manifestation of God that can be
recognized by those in the human state of consciousness. If the chela
is not possessed of this quality of dedication and loyalty to the path
of ECK, his incarnations are lengthened in this world, and he shall
be able to enter into the next worlds at the end of his present life."
"The living ECK Master strives constantly to take the chela out of the
earthly games level but he never makes rules or rituals, never lays
down laws and proclaims his way to God as the better way, although all
know that it is. He knows that all religions are pseudo and in the
minority, but never states this in any of his works. He never asks
that anyone follow his path and abide by his own conduct and words."
"All religions are for the benefit of the leader." pg. 94
"The living ECK Master embraces all humanity because he is the only
channel that can do so." pg. 98
"IF the chela is seeking eternity then he must first look for it
his own orbit. Since the living ECK Master is in this circle of being
that is the personal and universal self of the chela, then the latter
must seek it with the living ECK Master." pg. 99
"Yet on the opposing side all the power of God must reach these worlds
through the perfect instrument of the Mahanta, the living ECK Master.
There is no other way, for he is the distributor of the power." pg.
"When the ECK Master's position is attacked by revolt, or by
dissatisfaction among the followers of ECK, he will defend himself.
Not in the way many would expect, but in ways that few can recognize.
The defense will always come from the inner planes, and by means of
ECK. Those who revolt or become dissatisfied cannot bring about any
attack upon the living ECK Master or his position in life. If they
there is always the swiftest of retribution, which is not always
recognized by the receiver nor those who might have observed the
occasion." pg. 101
"Those who are the children of ECK are the sons and daughters of the
divine Sound Current. They are the heroic people of their age and
could suffer at the hands of the orthodox who wish to keep the
of the ECK from spreading." pg. 101
* * * * * * * * * * *
"All Souls struggling to find their way to the true path of God--the
way of ECKANKAR--will eventually seek out the living ECK Master." pg.
"All world religions . . . are materialistic in nature and worship the
wrong power, the wrong God. Unless a religion has for its basic
teaching the living ECK Master, the Sound Current and the Light, it
will not have longevity. Few, if any religions have such elements in
their teachings." pg. 91
"No man comes to the SUGMAD except through the Mahanta." pg. 91
" . . . to make promises which knowingly are false, is to annul one's
advancement on the spiritual path." pg. 91
[The Mahanta, the living ECK Master] "is stronger than any man in
intellect or spirit, for he has unlimited power, yet this strength is
combined with the noble virtues of the humble and gentle. All people
find in him inspiration for the development of noble character . . .
is the greatest religious leader on earth." pg. 81
" . . . therefore, all who wish the truth of ECK must follow the
Mahanta, the living ECK Master. The SUGMAD cannot instruct, or give
man the needed help on the upward path, without the Mahanta in human
form to act as his instrument and spokesman . . . only the living ECK
Master can offer the chela a definite method by which he can prove all
things to himself." pg. 83
"It is not possible to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven except through
the teachings of ECKANKAR." pg. 83
"However, the ECK initiate of the Second Circle will rise above any of
these lower worlds upon the decease of the physical vehicle. He will
enter into the Atma world at once, escorted by the living
Mahanta . . .
however, if any Soul who is a chela or initiate leaves the path of ECK
for another way to the heavenly worlds . . . he must expect his karma
to be extended. His karmic burden increases as he gathers more, going
through incarnation after incarnation searching blindly for what he
given up . . . no one but the living Mahanta can take him out of this
plane of matter." pg. 83
"Woe be to him who tries to travel another path of religious doctrine
or spiritual wordks while at the same time a chela of the living ECK
Master . . . if he becomes an initiate in ECKANKAR there shall be no
wavering from the path unless he wishes an adverse life and falling
into disgrace." pg. 84
"Those Souls which follow the beckoning finger of Niranjan to
religion shall take the wrong turn of the road. None but the living
ECK Master, who has descended to the worlds of matter to give all
an opportunity to return to Heaven, is capable of offering this
opportunity. All others are false prophets and shall not be heeded."
"The sweet whispers of this negative genius [Kal] are heard in the
voices of those who make claims to be the prophets of the times and
preachers, clergy and priests who represent the old orthodox
religions." Pg. 44
"Never talk of achievements in ECK, for this brings only disaster to
the chela." pg. 45
"Every Soul is liberated from the material worlds upon Initiation by
the Mahanta, who has been granted this power by the SUGMAD . . . the
uninitiated are those who have not received liberation through
Initiation from the Mahanta. Baptism will not fulfill the necessity of
liberation. Neither will the joining of any cult, religion or faith.
Only the living ECK Master has the power to initiate Souls and take
them to the regions of light." pg. 57
"Unless the chela believes in the Mahanta, has faith in the ECK, and
trusts the SUGMAD--completely--he has spent his time worthlessly."
"Those who cease to believe in the Mahanta must pay the price. The
payment is in accord with their degree of capability. Since the inner
Master is only the vehicle for the SUGMAD, all persons who are
followintg the path of ECK must look to him as the representative of
the ECK power on Earth. He is not the Master of anyone who is not
following the path of ECKANKAR." pg. 58
"The ECK Master establishes miraculous power in the chela when they
meet for the chela's last incarnation in the Earth world." pg. 58
"The final goal of good karma is to bring the chela to the living ECK
Master and to learn the true path to the SUGMAD. This is the very
highest reward of good karma, assuring the chela of his liberation
the Wheel of the Eighty-Four." pg. 59
"No Soul that is an Initiate of the ECK will have to account for Its
deeds and actions with the lower realm of the Kal world. It is
with all earthly karma and must now begin to work out the karma of its
actions on the astral plane." pg. 65
"Only the ECK Masters have reached the fifth state of spiritual
development, where they enter into the Atma plane at will. They have
gone far beyond this stage and entered into the Anami level with the
true Godhead." pg. 66
"The Mahanta is able to be seen by all his chelas simultaneously for
is of the ECK ITSELF. Being the Spirit of all things he is,
capable of giving the secret teachings to all Initiates of ECKANKAR,
to protect and give them the necessities of life. He knows that goes
on in the minds of every chela and all people. If he so chooses he
knows the thoughts of animals and of every embodiment of life." pg.
" . . . the SUGMAD was moved to incarnate ITSELF as the Mahanta, the
living ECK Master, and to give the Truth of the path of salvation in
simple language." pg. 69
"The agents of Kal, who call themselves Men of God, have concealed and
done away with all truly religious scriptures. They have replaced
with the pseudo scriptures, and claim they are the Books of God." pg.
"Man loves miracles." pg. 70