What's real?

Post by fife
Do you believe in magic?
8. IMAGINATION
7. FORM WITHOUT FORM
6. INNER WILL
5. RELATIONS WITH OTHERS
4. RATIONAL MIND
3. EMOTIONS WITH RESPECT TO SELF
2. PHYSICAL SENSATION
1. PHYSICAL BODY
Do you want to live a magic life exclusive of everything else about your self including an ideal of good character, if you have an ideal of good character?
1. ASMITA/ID
4. AHAMKARA/SUPEREGO
3. BUDDHI/EGO
2. CITTA/COLLECTIVE UNCONSCIOUS
1. MANAS/PERSONAL UNCONSCIOUS
8. IMAGINATION
7. FORM WITHOUT FORM
6. INNER WILL
5. RELATIONS WITH OTHERS
4. RATIONAL MIND
3. EMOTIONS WITH RESPECT TO SELF
2. PHYSICAL SENSATION
1. PHYSICAL BODY
12. GOOD CHARACTER
11. INTEGRITY
10. TRUTHFULNESS
9. HONESTY
8. VIEW
7. RESOLVE
6. SPEECH
5. ACTION
4. LIVELIHOOD
3. EFFORT
2. MINDFULNESS
1. CONCENTRATION

If you ask me (and likely many others) Paul Twitchell and Eckankar still printed plagiarized text and fictions, fictional characters, pseudo history and religion. And I think most would agree other organized religions have done the same; imagined truths substituting for actual reality!
Not all imaginations have positive effects, or are legal.

Today (and for many years) they (other orthodox religions, Eckankar included) obviously couldn't / can't cope with the truth. I.O.W. can't handle it. What? When "armies" go to battle over different versions of imagined fictions and pseudo history (neither of which are true)?

I'll try to explain what I mean. For many years in certain Eckankar circles if you mentioned the word Darwin Gross it was akin to conjuring the Devil! (Even though Darwin Gross was leader of Eckankar who succeeded the founder, Paul Twitchell and married his widow). Even though Darwin Gross served for a decade, was called The Living Eck Master and later The Mahanta, The Living Eck Master.

Here is a quote from the standalone a.r.e. thread about "vital information":

"Is it coincidence big changes followed the revelations of plagiarism and other things? The 10-year successor of Eckankar's modern-day founder gets a divorce (from founder's widow) and later (a couple years later?) chooses to "resign" his responsibilities as Living Eck Master to someone else? Someone else who (a couple years later?) "had him removed" from the organization altogether?"

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/yTgikLCf4p0/m/jMERmWRt8MwJ

People were also trashed and publicly mocked for mentioning the word plagiarism and / or suggesting that certain Eckankar masters and history were fake.

What history shows (not just here on a.r.e.) about religions and how they treated other faiths was / is not all peaches and cream. Neither "Bright Future" and those riding for the "Eck Brand". Those who literally trashed and mocked other people (including Eckankar members and ex-Eckankar members) right here in a.r.e. (and on other forums) for decades! Some who made up lies and when challenged, denied they were untrue.

So if you ask me, the truth matters. And is the single most important thing when professing masters and godmen. At the same time partial "truth", and religion not telling the truth, is like a growing dilemma which inevitably spawns chaos after the actual whole truth and nothing but the truth get sacrificed for some kind of "freedom of religion".

Eckankar has a dictionary and lexicon. In it one can find the word sat, where the definition reads: " Truth; reality; existence; that which is not sat does not really exist; fundamental idea of truth is existence; the untrue does not exist; the true does." (p. 182, A Cosmic Sea of Words, THE ECKANKAR LEXICON, by Harold Klemp.) That would be the same word sat, as in satsang.

We had an ex-Eckankar member who came here for spiritual upliftment (need to find the exact quote) whatever, but who wrote such things as:

"Apart from everything else, you don't understand that if the wall you keep throwing your spitballs at came tumbling down there'd be nothing but ruins. No Eckankar to be an Eckist to the core by, with, for, about.

"You can't see or hear that at all because you're convinced that Eckankar is real, when it's not. Not any more than any other entrenched illusion. You're Don Quixote, Etznab."

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/MvKLuEnVtS0/m/oXVd0-vQAQAJ

And before Eckankar was Ekankar. And before that were other spellings and transliterations explaining what it was / is.

A quote from The true Ekankar thread:

"The whole universe is considered as *one, the true Ekankar. There is perfect oneness in the universe, which is also coexistent with God - infinite, unlimited. Hence, the Soami is *nirankar, that is, formless. As such, he is without personality, hence without name." - Julian Johnson

" 'The whole universe is considered as One, the true ECKANKAR. There is perfect oneness in the universe, which is also co-existent with God, infinite, unlimited. Hence the SUGMAD is Nirankar, i.e. formless.' " - Rebazar Tarzs to Paul Twitchell

The "true" ******** is plagiarism and paraphrase?

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/K6P7ycsiy38/m/tHHej5rNAAAJ

Contrary to Fife, members of religion, ex-members of religion, and even ordinary people can know what is true and real in spite of their religion. How many people go to church knowing full well that stories told for centuries are not all literally true? (Probably a similar amount of people who don't publicly question stories in order to find the true and the real.)

Don't question the written and spoken truth. Don't question leading authorities who know they are selling lies for truth and reality. Because if you do, the liars will come for you! They can't stand what is true and real when it puts their own fictional fantasy-based businesses in jeopardy (The same with politics). In order to silence competition, the truth-haters will tell you that your religion is just one big lie. The whole thing! And imho THAT IS a lie when truth (mixed with untruth) exists in all religions. When most religions have grown off of others before them. When written passages are taken from one teaching and repurposed for another (Ekankar vs. Eckankar anybody?). And when fictional characters are used to teach truths that fictional characters did not actually come up with.

What's real is that religions don't own the truth. And when religions mix truth with untruth (especially to profit by it) they are actually corrupting what is true and real. Not that fictions don't have a place, but when it comes to religions I think fictions should be qualified as fiction. Most importantly when it speaks about actual historical events when this way people are at greater liberty to find what is actually true and real; because there are times when it really matters. There are times when people following a path need to know the difference between what is true and real and what is not true and real. It could be a matter of life and death. Like when someone erases the words DANGER! DON'T GO HERE! from a sign that reads: DANGER! DON'T GO HERE! Etc.

Religions are often likened to paths that lead to higher levels of awareness via what is true and real. Take the not true and not real out of religion and religious dogma (including pseudo history) and what do you have left? MORE OF WHAT IS TRUE AND REAL!

I'll end with a quote:

"Guru Nanak gives us at the beginning a compact definition of the Force that Runs the Entire Universe. It is One – Ek. Is has vibration, sound – Ong – and from sound, from vibration it express itself in form – Kaar."

http://web.archive.org/web/20160202133437/http://www.sikhdharma.org/pages/mool-mantra-eokk

Tisra Til

2022-01-04 00:00:51 UTC

Today (and for many years) they (other orthodox religions, Eckankar included) obviously couldn't / can't cope with the truth. I.O.W. can't handle it. What? When "armies" go to battle over different versions of imagined fictions and pseudo history (neither of which are true)?
I'll try to explain what I mean. For many years in certain Eckankar circles if you mentioned the word Darwin Gross it was akin to conjuring the Devil! (Even though Darwin Gross was leader of Eckankar who succeeded the founder, Paul Twitchell and married his widow). Even though Darwin Gross served for a decade, was called The Living Eck Master and later The Mahanta, The Living Eck Master.
"Is it coincidence big changes followed the revelations of plagiarism and other things? The 10-year successor of Eckankar's modern-day founder gets a divorce (from founder's widow) and later (a couple years later?) chooses to "resign" his responsibilities as Living Eck Master to someone else? Someone else who (a couple years later?) "had him removed" from the organization altogether?"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/yTgikLCf4p0/m/jMERmWRt8MwJ
People were also trashed and publicly mocked for mentioning the word plagiarism and / or suggesting that certain Eckankar masters and history were fake.
What history shows (not just here on a.r.e.) about religions and how they treated other faiths was / is not all peaches and cream. Neither "Bright Future" and those riding for the "Eck Brand". Those who literally trashed and mocked other people (including Eckankar members and ex-Eckankar members) right here in a.r.e. (and on other forums) for decades! Some who made up lies and when challenged, denied they were untrue.
So if you ask me, the truth matters. And is the single most important thing when professing masters and godmen. At the same time partial "truth", and religion not telling the truth, is like a growing dilemma which inevitably spawns chaos after the actual whole truth and nothing but the truth get sacrificed for some kind of "freedom of religion".
Eckankar has a dictionary and lexicon. In it one can find the word sat, where the definition reads: " Truth; reality; existence; that which is not sat does not really exist; fundamental idea of truth is existence; the untrue does not exist; the true does." (p. 182, A Cosmic Sea of Words, THE ECKANKAR LEXICON, by Harold Klemp.) That would be the same word sat, as in satsang.
"Apart from everything else, you don't understand that if the wall you keep throwing your spitballs at came tumbling down there'd be nothing but ruins. No Eckankar to be an Eckist to the core by, with, for, about.
"You can't see or hear that at all because you're convinced that Eckankar is real, when it's not. Not any more than any other entrenched illusion. You're Don Quixote, Etznab."
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/MvKLuEnVtS0/m/oXVd0-vQAQAJ
And before Eckankar was Ekankar. And before that were other spellings and transliterations explaining what it was / is.
"The whole universe is considered as *one, the true Ekankar. There is perfect oneness in the universe, which is also coexistent with God - infinite, unlimited. Hence, the Soami is *nirankar, that is, formless. As such, he is without personality, hence without name." - Julian Johnson
" 'The whole universe is considered as One, the true ECKANKAR. There is perfect oneness in the universe, which is also co-existent with God, infinite, unlimited. Hence the SUGMAD is Nirankar, i.e. formless.' " - Rebazar Tarzs to Paul Twitchell
The "true" ******** is plagiarism and paraphrase?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/K6P7ycsiy38/m/tHHej5rNAAAJ
Contrary to Fife, members of religion, ex-members of religion, and even ordinary people can know what is true and real in spite of their religion. How many people go to church knowing full well that stories told for centuries are not all literally true? (Probably a similar amount of people who don't publicly question stories in order to find the true and the real.)
Don't question the written and spoken truth. Don't question leading authorities who know they are selling lies for truth and reality. Because if you do, the liars will come for you! They can't stand what is true and real when it puts their own fictional fantasy-based businesses in jeopardy (The same with politics). In order to silence competition, the truth-haters will tell you that your religion is just one big lie. The whole thing! And imho THAT IS a lie when truth (mixed with untruth) exists in all religions. When most religions have grown off of others before them. When written passages are taken from one teaching and repurposed for another (Ekankar vs. Eckankar anybody?). And when fictional characters are used to teach truths that fictional characters did not actually come up with.
What's real is that religions don't own the truth. And when religions mix truth with untruth (especially to profit by it) they are actually corrupting what is true and real. Not that fictions don't have a place, but when it comes to religions I think fictions should be qualified as fiction. Most importantly when it speaks about actual historical events when this way people are at greater liberty to find what is actually true and real; because there are times when it really matters. There are times when people following a path need to know the difference between what is true and real and what is not true and real. It could be a matter of life and death. Like when someone erases the words DANGER! DON'T GO HERE! from a sign that reads: DANGER! DON'T GO HERE! Etc.
Religions are often likened to paths that lead to higher levels of awareness via what is true and real. Take the not true and not real out of religion and religious dogma (including pseudo history) and what do you have left? MORE OF WHAT IS TRUE AND REAL!
"Guru Nanak gives us at the beginning a compact definition of the Force that Runs the Entire Universe. It is One – Ek. Is has vibration, sound – Ong – and from sound, from vibration it express itself in form – Kaar."
http://web.archive.org/web/20160202133437/http://www.sikhdharma.org/pages/mool-mantra-eokk

Ek equals id in ordinary psychology. "That part of the psyche which is regarded as the reservoir of the instinctual drives and the source of psychic energy; it is dominated by the pleasure principle and irrational wishing." "Mahanta" is a fancy title made up by Paul Twitchell to describe someone acting in the capacity of the id. It's not a good servant, it's not a good master, its impulses have to be controlled through the development of the superego and the ego. "The superego is that part of the psyche which is critical of the self or ego and enforces moral standards: at an unconscious level it blocks unacceptable impulses of the id.' "The ego is that part of the psyche which experiences the external world, or reality, through the senses, organizes the thought processes rationally, and governs action: it mediates between the impulses of the id, the demands of the environment, and the standards of the superego." Imagination is the principle part of ego.
IMAGINATION
FORM WITHOUT FORM
INNER WILL
RELATIONS WITH OTHERS
RATIONAL MIND
EMOTIONS WITH RESPECT TO SELF
PHYSICAL SENSATION
PHYSICAL BODY
But ego isn't the end of the line. Every one is at the mercy of character. And any society that doesn't hold to the development of good character is a "dog-eat-dog" world.
The ego is what philosophy considers to be the self, spiritual substance. People get into it believing it's the whole universe and explains everything. It isn't and doesn't. There's far more to us and one another that just ego.

What role does intuition and the realization of oneness play in this terminology of different levels?

fife

2022-01-04 14:25:45 UTC

Today (and for many years) they (other orthodox religions, Eckankar included) obviously couldn't / can't cope with the truth. I.O.W. can't handle it. What? When "armies" go to battle over different versions of imagined fictions and pseudo history (neither of which are true)?
I'll try to explain what I mean. For many years in certain Eckankar circles if you mentioned the word Darwin Gross it was akin to conjuring the Devil! (Even though Darwin Gross was leader of Eckankar who succeeded the founder, Paul Twitchell and married his widow). Even though Darwin Gross served for a decade, was called The Living Eck Master and later The Mahanta, The Living Eck Master.
"Is it coincidence big changes followed the revelations of plagiarism and other things? The 10-year successor of Eckankar's modern-day founder gets a divorce (from founder's widow) and later (a couple years later?) chooses to "resign" his responsibilities as Living Eck Master to someone else? Someone else who (a couple years later?) "had him removed" from the organization altogether?"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/yTgikLCf4p0/m/jMERmWRt8MwJ
People were also trashed and publicly mocked for mentioning the word plagiarism and / or suggesting that certain Eckankar masters and history were fake.
What history shows (not just here on a.r.e.) about religions and how they treated other faiths was / is not all peaches and cream. Neither "Bright Future" and those riding for the "Eck Brand". Those who literally trashed and mocked other people (including Eckankar members and ex-Eckankar members) right here in a.r.e. (and on other forums) for decades! Some who made up lies and when challenged, denied they were untrue.
So if you ask me, the truth matters. And is the single most important thing when professing masters and godmen. At the same time partial "truth", and religion not telling the truth, is like a growing dilemma which inevitably spawns chaos after the actual whole truth and nothing but the truth get sacrificed for some kind of "freedom of religion".
Eckankar has a dictionary and lexicon. In it one can find the word sat, where the definition reads: " Truth; reality; existence; that which is not sat does not really exist; fundamental idea of truth is existence; the untrue does not exist; the true does." (p. 182, A Cosmic Sea of Words, THE ECKANKAR LEXICON, by Harold Klemp.) That would be the same word sat, as in satsang.
"Apart from everything else, you don't understand that if the wall you keep throwing your spitballs at came tumbling down there'd be nothing but ruins. No Eckankar to be an Eckist to the core by, with, for, about.
"You can't see or hear that at all because you're convinced that Eckankar is real, when it's not. Not any more than any other entrenched illusion. You're Don Quixote, Etznab."
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/MvKLuEnVtS0/m/oXVd0-vQAQAJ
And before Eckankar was Ekankar. And before that were other spellings and transliterations explaining what it was / is.
"The whole universe is considered as *one, the true Ekankar. There is perfect oneness in the universe, which is also coexistent with God - infinite, unlimited. Hence, the Soami is *nirankar, that is, formless. As such, he is without personality, hence without name." - Julian Johnson
" 'The whole universe is considered as One, the true ECKANKAR. There is perfect oneness in the universe, which is also co-existent with God, infinite, unlimited. Hence the SUGMAD is Nirankar, i.e. formless.' " - Rebazar Tarzs to Paul Twitchell
The "true" ******** is plagiarism and paraphrase?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/K6P7ycsiy38/m/tHHej5rNAAAJ
Contrary to Fife, members of religion, ex-members of religion, and even ordinary people can know what is true and real in spite of their religion. How many people go to church knowing full well that stories told for centuries are not all literally true? (Probably a similar amount of people who don't publicly question stories in order to find the true and the real.)
Don't question the written and spoken truth. Don't question leading authorities who know they are selling lies for truth and reality. Because if you do, the liars will come for you! They can't stand what is true and real when it puts their own fictional fantasy-based businesses in jeopardy (The same with politics). In order to silence competition, the truth-haters will tell you that your religion is just one big lie. The whole thing! And imho THAT IS a lie when truth (mixed with untruth) exists in all religions. When most religions have grown off of others before them. When written passages are taken from one teaching and repurposed for another (Ekankar vs. Eckankar anybody?). And when fictional characters are used to teach truths that fictional characters did not actually come up with.
What's real is that religions don't own the truth. And when religions mix truth with untruth (especially to profit by it) they are actually corrupting what is true and real. Not that fictions don't have a place, but when it comes to religions I think fictions should be qualified as fiction. Most importantly when it speaks about actual historical events when this way people are at greater liberty to find what is actually true and real; because there are times when it really matters. There are times when people following a path need to know the difference between what is true and real and what is not true and real. It could be a matter of life and death. Like when someone erases the words DANGER! DON'T GO HERE! from a sign that reads: DANGER! DON'T GO HERE! Etc.
Religions are often likened to paths that lead to higher levels of awareness via what is true and real. Take the not true and not real out of religion and religious dogma (including pseudo history) and what do you have left? MORE OF WHAT IS TRUE AND REAL!
"Guru Nanak gives us at the beginning a compact definition of the Force that Runs the Entire Universe. It is One – Ek. Is has vibration, sound – Ong – and from sound, from vibration it express itself in form – Kaar."
http://web.archive.org/web/20160202133437/http://www.sikhdharma.org/pages/mool-mantra-eokk

What role does intuition and the realization of oneness play in this terminology of different levels?

Hey, Mike:
Intuition is easy. It's the field out inner will operates in. Sometimes we pick up a clue from the field and sometimes we go on our merry, willful way.

And, I see one as what we are and the way we live because of that. All the things I listed in four groups operating together and simultaneously. So maybe we have different definitions of oneness.

The inner and outer life together as one form. So, nondual. One form that expresses both.

Tisra Til

2022-01-04 22:33:33 UTC

Today (and for many years) they (other orthodox religions, Eckankar included) obviously couldn't / can't cope with the truth. I.O.W. can't handle it. What? When "armies" go to battle over different versions of imagined fictions and pseudo history (neither of which are true)?
I'll try to explain what I mean. For many years in certain Eckankar circles if you mentioned the word Darwin Gross it was akin to conjuring the Devil! (Even though Darwin Gross was leader of Eckankar who succeeded the founder, Paul Twitchell and married his widow). Even though Darwin Gross served for a decade, was called The Living Eck Master and later The Mahanta, The Living Eck Master.
"Is it coincidence big changes followed the revelations of plagiarism and other things? The 10-year successor of Eckankar's modern-day founder gets a divorce (from founder's widow) and later (a couple years later?) chooses to "resign" his responsibilities as Living Eck Master to someone else? Someone else who (a couple years later?) "had him removed" from the organization altogether?"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/yTgikLCf4p0/m/jMERmWRt8MwJ
People were also trashed and publicly mocked for mentioning the word plagiarism and / or suggesting that certain Eckankar masters and history were fake.
What history shows (not just here on a.r.e.) about religions and how they treated other faiths was / is not all peaches and cream. Neither "Bright Future" and those riding for the "Eck Brand". Those who literally trashed and mocked other people (including Eckankar members and ex-Eckankar members) right here in a.r.e. (and on other forums) for decades! Some who made up lies and when challenged, denied they were untrue.
So if you ask me, the truth matters. And is the single most important thing when professing masters and godmen. At the same time partial "truth", and religion not telling the truth, is like a growing dilemma which inevitably spawns chaos after the actual whole truth and nothing but the truth get sacrificed for some kind of "freedom of religion".
Eckankar has a dictionary and lexicon. In it one can find the word sat, where the definition reads: " Truth; reality; existence; that which is not sat does not really exist; fundamental idea of truth is existence; the untrue does not exist; the true does." (p. 182, A Cosmic Sea of Words, THE ECKANKAR LEXICON, by Harold Klemp.) That would be the same word sat, as in satsang.
"Apart from everything else, you don't understand that if the wall you keep throwing your spitballs at came tumbling down there'd be nothing but ruins. No Eckankar to be an Eckist to the core by, with, for, about.
"You can't see or hear that at all because you're convinced that Eckankar is real, when it's not. Not any more than any other entrenched illusion. You're Don Quixote, Etznab."
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/MvKLuEnVtS0/m/oXVd0-vQAQAJ
And before Eckankar was Ekankar. And before that were other spellings and transliterations explaining what it was / is.
"The whole universe is considered as *one, the true Ekankar. There is perfect oneness in the universe, which is also coexistent with God - infinite, unlimited. Hence, the Soami is *nirankar, that is, formless. As such, he is without personality, hence without name." - Julian Johnson
" 'The whole universe is considered as One, the true ECKANKAR. There is perfect oneness in the universe, which is also co-existent with God, infinite, unlimited. Hence the SUGMAD is Nirankar, i.e. formless.' " - Rebazar Tarzs to Paul Twitchell
The "true" ******** is plagiarism and paraphrase?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/K6P7ycsiy38/m/tHHej5rNAAAJ
Contrary to Fife, members of religion, ex-members of religion, and even ordinary people can know what is true and real in spite of their religion. How many people go to church knowing full well that stories told for centuries are not all literally true? (Probably a similar amount of people who don't publicly question stories in order to find the true and the real.)
Don't question the written and spoken truth. Don't question leading authorities who know they are selling lies for truth and reality. Because if you do, the liars will come for you! They can't stand what is true and real when it puts their own fictional fantasy-based businesses in jeopardy (The same with politics). In order to silence competition, the truth-haters will tell you that your religion is just one big lie. The whole thing! And imho THAT IS a lie when truth (mixed with untruth) exists in all religions. When most religions have grown off of others before them. When written passages are taken from one teaching and repurposed for another (Ekankar vs. Eckankar anybody?). And when fictional characters are used to teach truths that fictional characters did not actually come up with.
What's real is that religions don't own the truth. And when religions mix truth with untruth (especially to profit by it) they are actually corrupting what is true and real. Not that fictions don't have a place, but when it comes to religions I think fictions should be qualified as fiction. Most importantly when it speaks about actual historical events when this way people are at greater liberty to find what is actually true and real; because there are times when it really matters. There are times when people following a path need to know the difference between what is true and real and what is not true and real. It could be a matter of life and death. Like when someone erases the words DANGER! DON'T GO HERE! from a sign that reads: DANGER! DON'T GO HERE! Etc.
Religions are often likened to paths that lead to higher levels of awareness via what is true and real. Take the not true and not real out of religion and religious dogma (including pseudo history) and what do you have left? MORE OF WHAT IS TRUE AND REAL!
"Guru Nanak gives us at the beginning a compact definition of the Force that Runs the Entire Universe. It is One – Ek. Is has vibration, sound – Ong – and from sound, from vibration it express itself in form – Kaar."
http://web.archive.org/web/20160202133437/http://www.sikhdharma.org/pages/mool-mantra-eokk

What role does intuition and the realization of oneness play in this terminology of different levels?

Intuition is easy. It's the field our inner will operates in. Sometimes we pick up a clue from the field and sometimes we go our merry, willful way.
And, I see one as what we are and the way we live because of that. All the things I listed in four groups operating together and simultaneously. So maybe we have different definitions of oneness.
The inner and outer life together as one form. So, nondual. One form that expresses both.

My understanding of Buddhi, or the Buddhic principle, is that it corresponds with the intuition, in which the self-other boundary is momentarily dissolved. And the Ahamkara corresponds with the Self or I consciousness, which is connected to the All/Absolute/Cosmic Consciousness, which is where oneness is perceived or experienced (Samadhi).

You are using the Freudian terms of Id, Ego and Superego, which I am not sure is what Freud had in mind when compared with the Sanskrit/Hindu terms and definitions. Is this part of a system or path that you are drawing from?

fife

2022-01-04 23:39:26 UTC

Today (and for many years) they (other orthodox religions, Eckankar included) obviously couldn't / can't cope with the truth. I.O.W. can't handle it. What? When "armies" go to battle over different versions of imagined fictions and pseudo history (neither of which are true)?
I'll try to explain what I mean. For many years in certain Eckankar circles if you mentioned the word Darwin Gross it was akin to conjuring the Devil! (Even though Darwin Gross was leader of Eckankar who succeeded the founder, Paul Twitchell and married his widow). Even though Darwin Gross served for a decade, was called The Living Eck Master and later The Mahanta, The Living Eck Master.
"Is it coincidence big changes followed the revelations of plagiarism and other things? The 10-year successor of Eckankar's modern-day founder gets a divorce (from founder's widow) and later (a couple years later?) chooses to "resign" his responsibilities as Living Eck Master to someone else? Someone else who (a couple years later?) "had him removed" from the organization altogether?"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/yTgikLCf4p0/m/jMERmWRt8MwJ
People were also trashed and publicly mocked for mentioning the word plagiarism and / or suggesting that certain Eckankar masters and history were fake.
What history shows (not just here on a.r.e.) about religions and how they treated other faiths was / is not all peaches and cream. Neither "Bright Future" and those riding for the "Eck Brand". Those who literally trashed and mocked other people (including Eckankar members and ex-Eckankar members) right here in a.r.e. (and on other forums) for decades! Some who made up lies and when challenged, denied they were untrue.
So if you ask me, the truth matters. And is the single most important thing when professing masters and godmen. At the same time partial "truth", and religion not telling the truth, is like a growing dilemma which inevitably spawns chaos after the actual whole truth and nothing but the truth get sacrificed for some kind of "freedom of religion".
Eckankar has a dictionary and lexicon. In it one can find the word sat, where the definition reads: " Truth; reality; existence; that which is not sat does not really exist; fundamental idea of truth is existence; the untrue does not exist; the true does." (p. 182, A Cosmic Sea of Words, THE ECKANKAR LEXICON, by Harold Klemp.) That would be the same word sat, as in satsang.
"Apart from everything else, you don't understand that if the wall you keep throwing your spitballs at came tumbling down there'd be nothing but ruins. No Eckankar to be an Eckist to the core by, with, for, about.
"You can't see or hear that at all because you're convinced that Eckankar is real, when it's not. Not any more than any other entrenched illusion. You're Don Quixote, Etznab."
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/MvKLuEnVtS0/m/oXVd0-vQAQAJ
And before Eckankar was Ekankar. And before that were other spellings and transliterations explaining what it was / is.
"The whole universe is considered as *one, the true Ekankar. There is perfect oneness in the universe, which is also coexistent with God - infinite, unlimited. Hence, the Soami is *nirankar, that is, formless. As such, he is without personality, hence without name." - Julian Johnson
" 'The whole universe is considered as One, the true ECKANKAR. There is perfect oneness in the universe, which is also co-existent with God, infinite, unlimited. Hence the SUGMAD is Nirankar, i.e. formless.' " - Rebazar Tarzs to Paul Twitchell
The "true" ******** is plagiarism and paraphrase?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/K6P7ycsiy38/m/tHHej5rNAAAJ
Contrary to Fife, members of religion, ex-members of religion, and even ordinary people can know what is true and real in spite of their religion. How many people go to church knowing full well that stories told for centuries are not all literally true? (Probably a similar amount of people who don't publicly question stories in order to find the true and the real.)
Don't question the written and spoken truth. Don't question leading authorities who know they are selling lies for truth and reality. Because if you do, the liars will come for you! They can't stand what is true and real when it puts their own fictional fantasy-based businesses in jeopardy (The same with politics). In order to silence competition, the truth-haters will tell you that your religion is just one big lie. The whole thing! And imho THAT IS a lie when truth (mixed with untruth) exists in all religions. When most religions have grown off of others before them. When written passages are taken from one teaching and repurposed for another (Ekankar vs. Eckankar anybody?). And when fictional characters are used to teach truths that fictional characters did not actually come up with.
What's real is that religions don't own the truth. And when religions mix truth with untruth (especially to profit by it) they are actually corrupting what is true and real. Not that fictions don't have a place, but when it comes to religions I think fictions should be qualified as fiction. Most importantly when it speaks about actual historical events when this way people are at greater liberty to find what is actually true and real; because there are times when it really matters. There are times when people following a path need to know the difference between what is true and real and what is not true and real. It could be a matter of life and death. Like when someone erases the words DANGER! DON'T GO HERE! from a sign that reads: DANGER! DON'T GO HERE! Etc.
Religions are often likened to paths that lead to higher levels of awareness via what is true and real. Take the not true and not real out of religion and religious dogma (including pseudo history) and what do you have left? MORE OF WHAT IS TRUE AND REAL!
"Guru Nanak gives us at the beginning a compact definition of the Force that Runs the Entire Universe. It is One – Ek. Is has vibration, sound – Ong – and from sound, from vibration it express itself in form – Kaar."
http://web.archive.org/web/20160202133437/http://www.sikhdharma.org/pages/mool-mantra-eokk

What role does intuition and the realization of oneness play in this terminology of different levels?

My understanding of Buddhi, or the Buddhic principle, is that it corresponds with the intuition, in which the self-other boundary is momentarily dissolved. And the Ahamkara corresponds with the Self or I consciousness, which is connected to the All/Absolute/Cosmic Consciousness, which is where oneness is perceived or experienced (Samadhi).
You are using the Freudian terms of Id, Ego and Superego, which I am not sure is what Freud had in mind when compared with the Sanskrit/Hindu terms and definitions. Is this part of a system or path that you are drawing from?

Yes. But it checks out. Compare intuitively, intellectually, and subjectively and see what you come up with. Compare Theosophy, Vedanta, and other takes on these as well. These ideas have been around for tens of centuries and keep coming up. There must be a reason for that. We're imaginative, but not that imaginative where reality is concerned including subjective reality.

fife

2022-01-10 16:52:43 UTC

Today (and for many years) they (other orthodox religions, Eckankar included) obviously couldn't / can't cope with the truth. I.O.W. can't handle it. What? When "armies" go to battle over different versions of imagined fictions and pseudo history (neither of which are true)?
I'll try to explain what I mean. For many years in certain Eckankar circles if you mentioned the word Darwin Gross it was akin to conjuring the Devil! (Even though Darwin Gross was leader of Eckankar who succeeded the founder, Paul Twitchell and married his widow). Even though Darwin Gross served for a decade, was called The Living Eck Master and later The Mahanta, The Living Eck Master.
"Is it coincidence big changes followed the revelations of plagiarism and other things? The 10-year successor of Eckankar's modern-day founder gets a divorce (from founder's widow) and later (a couple years later?) chooses to "resign" his responsibilities as Living Eck Master to someone else? Someone else who (a couple years later?) "had him removed" from the organization altogether?"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/yTgikLCf4p0/m/jMERmWRt8MwJ
People were also trashed and publicly mocked for mentioning the word plagiarism and / or suggesting that certain Eckankar masters and history were fake.
What history shows (not just here on a.r.e.) about religions and how they treated other faiths was / is not all peaches and cream. Neither "Bright Future" and those riding for the "Eck Brand". Those who literally trashed and mocked other people (including Eckankar members and ex-Eckankar members) right here in a.r.e. (and on other forums) for decades! Some who made up lies and when challenged, denied they were untrue.
So if you ask me, the truth matters. And is the single most important thing when professing masters and godmen. At the same time partial "truth", and religion not telling the truth, is like a growing dilemma which inevitably spawns chaos after the actual whole truth and nothing but the truth get sacrificed for some kind of "freedom of religion".
Eckankar has a dictionary and lexicon. In it one can find the word sat, where the definition reads: " Truth; reality; existence; that which is not sat does not really exist; fundamental idea of truth is existence; the untrue does not exist; the true does." (p. 182, A Cosmic Sea of Words, THE ECKANKAR LEXICON, by Harold Klemp.) That would be the same word sat, as in satsang.
"Apart from everything else, you don't understand that if the wall you keep throwing your spitballs at came tumbling down there'd be nothing but ruins. No Eckankar to be an Eckist to the core by, with, for, about.
"You can't see or hear that at all because you're convinced that Eckankar is real, when it's not. Not any more than any other entrenched illusion. You're Don Quixote, Etznab."
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/MvKLuEnVtS0/m/oXVd0-vQAQAJ
And before Eckankar was Ekankar. And before that were other spellings and transliterations explaining what it was / is.
"The whole universe is considered as *one, the true Ekankar. There is perfect oneness in the universe, which is also coexistent with God - infinite, unlimited. Hence, the Soami is *nirankar, that is, formless. As such, he is without personality, hence without name." - Julian Johnson
" 'The whole universe is considered as One, the true ECKANKAR. There is perfect oneness in the universe, which is also co-existent with God, infinite, unlimited. Hence the SUGMAD is Nirankar, i.e. formless.' " - Rebazar Tarzs to Paul Twitchell
The "true" ******** is plagiarism and paraphrase?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/K6P7ycsiy38/m/tHHej5rNAAAJ
Contrary to Fife, members of religion, ex-members of religion, and even ordinary people can know what is true and real in spite of their religion. How many people go to church knowing full well that stories told for centuries are not all literally true? (Probably a similar amount of people who don't publicly question stories in order to find the true and the real.)
Don't question the written and spoken truth. Don't question leading authorities who know they are selling lies for truth and reality. Because if you do, the liars will come for you! They can't stand what is true and real when it puts their own fictional fantasy-based businesses in jeopardy (The same with politics). In order to silence competition, the truth-haters will tell you that your religion is just one big lie. The whole thing! And imho THAT IS a lie when truth (mixed with untruth) exists in all religions. When most religions have grown off of others before them. When written passages are taken from one teaching and repurposed for another (Ekankar vs. Eckankar anybody?). And when fictional characters are used to teach truths that fictional characters did not actually come up with.
What's real is that religions don't own the truth. And when religions mix truth with untruth (especially to profit by it) they are actually corrupting what is true and real. Not that fictions don't have a place, but when it comes to religions I think fictions should be qualified as fiction. Most importantly when it speaks about actual historical events when this way people are at greater liberty to find what is actually true and real; because there are times when it really matters. There are times when people following a path need to know the difference between what is true and real and what is not true and real. It could be a matter of life and death. Like when someone erases the words DANGER! DON'T GO HERE! from a sign that reads: DANGER! DON'T GO HERE! Etc.
Religions are often likened to paths that lead to higher levels of awareness via what is true and real. Take the not true and not real out of religion and religious dogma (including pseudo history) and what do you have left? MORE OF WHAT IS TRUE AND REAL!
"Guru Nanak gives us at the beginning a compact definition of the Force that Runs the Entire Universe. It is One – Ek. Is has vibration, sound – Ong – and from sound, from vibration it express itself in form – Kaar."
http://web.archive.org/web/20160202133437/http://www.sikhdharma.org/pages/mool-mantra-eokk

What role does intuition and the realization of oneness play in this terminology of different levels?

My understanding of Buddhi, or the Buddhic principle, is that it corresponds with the intuition, in which the self-other boundary is momentarily dissolved. And the Ahamkara corresponds with the Self or I consciousness, which is connected to the All/Absolute/Cosmic Consciousness, which is where oneness is perceived or experienced (Samadhi).
You are using the Freudian terms of Id, Ego and Superego, which I am not sure is what Freud had in mind when compared with the Sanskrit/Hindu terms and definitions. Is this part of a system or path that you are drawing from?

Got it. I’ve had more than a passing interest in Theosophy and Vedanta for many years. I was just trying to see the connections between the planes and the psychological conditions.

Philosophy is house paint over real human psychology, human nature, and human behavior. Psychic energy dominated by the pleasure principle and irrational wishing. So of course we love it.

If all your focus is on psychic energy dominated by the pleasure principle and irrational wishing with no mention of the development of good character in your presentation then you can only mislead everyone no matter what your intentions are even if they're the best of intentions.

Tisra Til

2022-01-10 22:11:10 UTC

Today (and for many years) they (other orthodox religions, Eckankar included) obviously couldn't / can't cope with the truth. I.O.W. can't handle it. What? When "armies" go to battle over different versions of imagined fictions and pseudo history (neither of which are true)?
I'll try to explain what I mean. For many years in certain Eckankar circles if you mentioned the word Darwin Gross it was akin to conjuring the Devil! (Even though Darwin Gross was leader of Eckankar who succeeded the founder, Paul Twitchell and married his widow). Even though Darwin Gross served for a decade, was called The Living Eck Master and later The Mahanta, The Living Eck Master.
"Is it coincidence big changes followed the revelations of plagiarism and other things? The 10-year successor of Eckankar's modern-day founder gets a divorce (from founder's widow) and later (a couple years later?) chooses to "resign" his responsibilities as Living Eck Master to someone else? Someone else who (a couple years later?) "had him removed" from the organization altogether?"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/yTgikLCf4p0/m/jMERmWRt8MwJ
People were also trashed and publicly mocked for mentioning the word plagiarism and / or suggesting that certain Eckankar masters and history were fake.
What history shows (not just here on a.r.e.) about religions and how they treated other faiths was / is not all peaches and cream. Neither "Bright Future" and those riding for the "Eck Brand". Those who literally trashed and mocked other people (including Eckankar members and ex-Eckankar members) right here in a.r.e. (and on other forums) for decades! Some who made up lies and when challenged, denied they were untrue.
So if you ask me, the truth matters. And is the single most important thing when professing masters and godmen. At the same time partial "truth", and religion not telling the truth, is like a growing dilemma which inevitably spawns chaos after the actual whole truth and nothing but the truth get sacrificed for some kind of "freedom of religion".
Eckankar has a dictionary and lexicon. In it one can find the word sat, where the definition reads: " Truth; reality; existence; that which is not sat does not really exist; fundamental idea of truth is existence; the untrue does not exist; the true does." (p. 182, A Cosmic Sea of Words, THE ECKANKAR LEXICON, by Harold Klemp.) That would be the same word sat, as in satsang.
"Apart from everything else, you don't understand that if the wall you keep throwing your spitballs at came tumbling down there'd be nothing but ruins. No Eckankar to be an Eckist to the core by, with, for, about.
"You can't see or hear that at all because you're convinced that Eckankar is real, when it's not. Not any more than any other entrenched illusion. You're Don Quixote, Etznab."
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/MvKLuEnVtS0/m/oXVd0-vQAQAJ
And before Eckankar was Ekankar. And before that were other spellings and transliterations explaining what it was / is.
"The whole universe is considered as *one, the true Ekankar. There is perfect oneness in the universe, which is also coexistent with God - infinite, unlimited. Hence, the Soami is *nirankar, that is, formless. As such, he is without personality, hence without name." - Julian Johnson
" 'The whole universe is considered as One, the true ECKANKAR. There is perfect oneness in the universe, which is also co-existent with God, infinite, unlimited. Hence the SUGMAD is Nirankar, i.e. formless.' " - Rebazar Tarzs to Paul Twitchell
The "true" ******** is plagiarism and paraphrase?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/K6P7ycsiy38/m/tHHej5rNAAAJ
Contrary to Fife, members of religion, ex-members of religion, and even ordinary people can know what is true and real in spite of their religion. How many people go to church knowing full well that stories told for centuries are not all literally true? (Probably a similar amount of people who don't publicly question stories in order to find the true and the real.)
Don't question the written and spoken truth. Don't question leading authorities who know they are selling lies for truth and reality. Because if you do, the liars will come for you! They can't stand what is true and real when it puts their own fictional fantasy-based businesses in jeopardy (The same with politics). In order to silence competition, the truth-haters will tell you that your religion is just one big lie. The whole thing! And imho THAT IS a lie when truth (mixed with untruth) exists in all religions. When most religions have grown off of others before them. When written passages are taken from one teaching and repurposed for another (Ekankar vs. Eckankar anybody?). And when fictional characters are used to teach truths that fictional characters did not actually come up with.
What's real is that religions don't own the truth. And when religions mix truth with untruth (especially to profit by it) they are actually corrupting what is true and real. Not that fictions don't have a place, but when it comes to religions I think fictions should be qualified as fiction. Most importantly when it speaks about actual historical events when this way people are at greater liberty to find what is actually true and real; because there are times when it really matters. There are times when people following a path need to know the difference between what is true and real and what is not true and real. It could be a matter of life and death. Like when someone erases the words DANGER! DON'T GO HERE! from a sign that reads: DANGER! DON'T GO HERE! Etc.
Religions are often likened to paths that lead to higher levels of awareness via what is true and real. Take the not true and not real out of religion and religious dogma (including pseudo history) and what do you have left? MORE OF WHAT IS TRUE AND REAL!
"Guru Nanak gives us at the beginning a compact definition of the Force that Runs the Entire Universe. It is One – Ek. Is has vibration, sound – Ong – and from sound, from vibration it express itself in form – Kaar."
http://web.archive.org/web/20160202133437/http://www.sikhdharma.org/pages/mool-mantra-eokk

What role does intuition and the realization of oneness play in this terminology of different levels?

My understanding of Buddhi, or the Buddhic principle, is that it corresponds with the intuition, in which the self-other boundary is momentarily dissolved. And the Ahamkara corresponds with the Self or I consciousness, which is connected to the All/Absolute/Cosmic Consciousness, which is where oneness is perceived or experienced (Samadhi).
You are using the Freudian terms of Id, Ego and Superego, which I am not sure is what Freud had in mind when compared with the Sanskrit/Hindu terms and definitions. Is this part of a system or path that you are drawing from?

Got it. I’ve had more than a passing interest in Theosophy and Vedanta for many years. I was just trying to see the connections between the planes and the psychological conditions.

Philosophy is house paint over real human psychology, human nature, and human behavior. Psychic energy dominated by the pleasure principle and irrational wishing. So of course we love it.

Western culture has not put any emphasis on intuition, or the buddhic principle or body, which starts bridging the gulf between self and other when it starts awakening. Even traditional psychology and psychiatry doesn’t put any weight on that, or sees the melting of boundaries between self and other- which can include your own mind- as pathological. There might be some psychologists/psychiatrists out there that do, but that hasn’t been my experience. If the gulf that exists between the rational mind and self is not bridged with the buddhic body/intuition, then pathology will still reign in society. Good character should include that- seeing the self in the other; not the personality/ego (as I define the ego; not the Latin definition that simply means “I”. That would be the same as Self/atman in Hinduism), which still perceives differences.

fife

2022-01-11 00:18:43 UTC

Today (and for many years) they (other orthodox religions, Eckankar included) obviously couldn't / can't cope with the truth. I.O.W. can't handle it. What? When "armies" go to battle over different versions of imagined fictions and pseudo history (neither of which are true)?
I'll try to explain what I mean. For many years in certain Eckankar circles if you mentioned the word Darwin Gross it was akin to conjuring the Devil! (Even though Darwin Gross was leader of Eckankar who succeeded the founder, Paul Twitchell and married his widow). Even though Darwin Gross served for a decade, was called The Living Eck Master and later The Mahanta, The Living Eck Master.
"Is it coincidence big changes followed the revelations of plagiarism and other things? The 10-year successor of Eckankar's modern-day founder gets a divorce (from founder's widow) and later (a couple years later?) chooses to "resign" his responsibilities as Living Eck Master to someone else? Someone else who (a couple years later?) "had him removed" from the organization altogether?"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/yTgikLCf4p0/m/jMERmWRt8MwJ
People were also trashed and publicly mocked for mentioning the word plagiarism and / or suggesting that certain Eckankar masters and history were fake.
What history shows (not just here on a.r.e.) about religions and how they treated other faiths was / is not all peaches and cream. Neither "Bright Future" and those riding for the "Eck Brand". Those who literally trashed and mocked other people (including Eckankar members and ex-Eckankar members) right here in a.r.e. (and on other forums) for decades! Some who made up lies and when challenged, denied they were untrue.
So if you ask me, the truth matters. And is the single most important thing when professing masters and godmen. At the same time partial "truth", and religion not telling the truth, is like a growing dilemma which inevitably spawns chaos after the actual whole truth and nothing but the truth get sacrificed for some kind of "freedom of religion".
Eckankar has a dictionary and lexicon. In it one can find the word sat, where the definition reads: " Truth; reality; existence; that which is not sat does not really exist; fundamental idea of truth is existence; the untrue does not exist; the true does." (p. 182, A Cosmic Sea of Words, THE ECKANKAR LEXICON, by Harold Klemp.) That would be the same word sat, as in satsang.
"Apart from everything else, you don't understand that if the wall you keep throwing your spitballs at came tumbling down there'd be nothing but ruins. No Eckankar to be an Eckist to the core by, with, for, about.
"You can't see or hear that at all because you're convinced that Eckankar is real, when it's not. Not any more than any other entrenched illusion. You're Don Quixote, Etznab."
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/MvKLuEnVtS0/m/oXVd0-vQAQAJ
And before Eckankar was Ekankar. And before that were other spellings and transliterations explaining what it was / is.
"The whole universe is considered as *one, the true Ekankar. There is perfect oneness in the universe, which is also coexistent with God - infinite, unlimited. Hence, the Soami is *nirankar, that is, formless. As such, he is without personality, hence without name." - Julian Johnson
" 'The whole universe is considered as One, the true ECKANKAR. There is perfect oneness in the universe, which is also co-existent with God, infinite, unlimited. Hence the SUGMAD is Nirankar, i.e. formless.' " - Rebazar Tarzs to Paul Twitchell
The "true" ******** is plagiarism and paraphrase?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/K6P7ycsiy38/m/tHHej5rNAAAJ
Contrary to Fife, members of religion, ex-members of religion, and even ordinary people can know what is true and real in spite of their religion. How many people go to church knowing full well that stories told for centuries are not all literally true? (Probably a similar amount of people who don't publicly question stories in order to find the true and the real.)
Don't question the written and spoken truth. Don't question leading authorities who know they are selling lies for truth and reality. Because if you do, the liars will come for you! They can't stand what is true and real when it puts their own fictional fantasy-based businesses in jeopardy (The same with politics). In order to silence competition, the truth-haters will tell you that your religion is just one big lie. The whole thing! And imho THAT IS a lie when truth (mixed with untruth) exists in all religions. When most religions have grown off of others before them. When written passages are taken from one teaching and repurposed for another (Ekankar vs. Eckankar anybody?). And when fictional characters are used to teach truths that fictional characters did not actually come up with.
What's real is that religions don't own the truth. And when religions mix truth with untruth (especially to profit by it) they are actually corrupting what is true and real. Not that fictions don't have a place, but when it comes to religions I think fictions should be qualified as fiction. Most importantly when it speaks about actual historical events when this way people are at greater liberty to find what is actually true and real; because there are times when it really matters. There are times when people following a path need to know the difference between what is true and real and what is not true and real. It could be a matter of life and death. Like when someone erases the words DANGER! DON'T GO HERE! from a sign that reads: DANGER! DON'T GO HERE! Etc.
Religions are often likened to paths that lead to higher levels of awareness via what is true and real. Take the not true and not real out of religion and religious dogma (including pseudo history) and what do you have left? MORE OF WHAT IS TRUE AND REAL!
"Guru Nanak gives us at the beginning a compact definition of the Force that Runs the Entire Universe. It is One – Ek. Is has vibration, sound – Ong – and from sound, from vibration it express itself in form – Kaar."
http://web.archive.org/web/20160202133437/http://www.sikhdharma.org/pages/mool-mantra-eokk

What role does intuition and the realization of oneness play in this terminology of different levels?

My understanding of Buddhi, or the Buddhic principle, is that it corresponds with the intuition, in which the self-other boundary is momentarily dissolved. And the Ahamkara corresponds with the Self or I consciousness, which is connected to the All/Absolute/Cosmic Consciousness, which is where oneness is perceived or experienced (Samadhi).
You are using the Freudian terms of Id, Ego and Superego, which I am not sure is what Freud had in mind when compared with the Sanskrit/Hindu terms and definitions. Is this part of a system or path that you are drawing from?

Got it. I’ve had more than a passing interest in Theosophy and Vedanta for many years. I was just trying to see the connections between the planes and the psychological conditions.

Philosophy is house paint over real human psychology, human nature, and human behavior. Psychic energy dominated by the pleasure principle and irrational wishing. So of course we love it.

:-) :-) :-)
Do you mean that people should stop acting like completely selfish pricks, operating on instinct alone, with no developed sense of inner conscience, no people skills, and character that everyone would do well to stay miles away from? Because no one is an island?

I couldn't agree more, but fat chance when no one rises above the idea of life as an emotional drama and all the narrative is kept to that of an emotional narrative.

wernertrp

2022-01-11 13:46:03 UTC

Today (and for many years) they (other orthodox religions, Eckankar included) obviously couldn't / can't cope with the truth. I.O.W. can't handle it. What? When "armies" go to battle over different versions of imagined fictions and pseudo history (neither of which are true)?
I'll try to explain what I mean. For many years in certain Eckankar circles if you mentioned the word Darwin Gross it was akin to conjuring the Devil! (Even though Darwin Gross was leader of Eckankar who succeeded the founder, Paul Twitchell and married his widow). Even though Darwin Gross served for a decade, was called The Living Eck Master and later The Mahanta, The Living Eck Master.
"Is it coincidence big changes followed the revelations of plagiarism and other things? The 10-year successor of Eckankar's modern-day founder gets a divorce (from founder's widow) and later (a couple years later?) chooses to "resign" his responsibilities as Living Eck Master to someone else? Someone else who (a couple years later?) "had him removed" from the organization altogether?"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/yTgikLCf4p0/m/jMERmWRt8MwJ
People were also trashed and publicly mocked for mentioning the word plagiarism and / or suggesting that certain Eckankar masters and history were fake.
What history shows (not just here on a.r.e.) about religions and how they treated other faiths was / is not all peaches and cream. Neither "Bright Future" and those riding for the "Eck Brand". Those who literally trashed and mocked other people (including Eckankar members and ex-Eckankar members) right here in a.r.e. (and on other forums) for decades! Some who made up lies and when challenged, denied they were untrue.
So if you ask me, the truth matters. And is the single most important thing when professing masters and godmen. At the same time partial "truth", and religion not telling the truth, is like a growing dilemma which inevitably spawns chaos after the actual whole truth and nothing but the truth get sacrificed for some kind of "freedom of religion".
Eckankar has a dictionary and lexicon. In it one can find the word sat, where the definition reads: " Truth; reality; existence; that which is not sat does not really exist; fundamental idea of truth is existence; the untrue does not exist; the true does." (p. 182, A Cosmic Sea of Words, THE ECKANKAR LEXICON, by Harold Klemp.) That would be the same word sat, as in satsang.
"Apart from everything else, you don't understand that if the wall you keep throwing your spitballs at came tumbling down there'd be nothing but ruins. No Eckankar to be an Eckist to the core by, with, for, about.
"You can't see or hear that at all because you're convinced that Eckankar is real, when it's not. Not any more than any other entrenched illusion. You're Don Quixote, Etznab."
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/MvKLuEnVtS0/m/oXVd0-vQAQAJ
And before Eckankar was Ekankar. And before that were other spellings and transliterations explaining what it was / is.
"The whole universe is considered as *one, the true Ekankar. There is perfect oneness in the universe, which is also coexistent with God - infinite, unlimited. Hence, the Soami is *nirankar, that is, formless. As such, he is without personality, hence without name." - Julian Johnson
" 'The whole universe is considered as One, the true ECKANKAR. There is perfect oneness in the universe, which is also co-existent with God, infinite, unlimited. Hence the SUGMAD is Nirankar, i.e. formless.' " - Rebazar Tarzs to Paul Twitchell
The "true" ******** is plagiarism and paraphrase?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/K6P7ycsiy38/m/tHHej5rNAAAJ
Contrary to Fife, members of religion, ex-members of religion, and even ordinary people can know what is true and real in spite of their religion. How many people go to church knowing full well that stories told for centuries are not all literally true? (Probably a similar amount of people who don't publicly question stories in order to find the true and the real.)
Don't question the written and spoken truth. Don't question leading authorities who know they are selling lies for truth and reality. Because if you do, the liars will come for you! They can't stand what is true and real when it puts their own fictional fantasy-based businesses in jeopardy (The same with politics). In order to silence competition, the truth-haters will tell you that your religion is just one big lie. The whole thing! And imho THAT IS a lie when truth (mixed with untruth) exists in all religions. When most religions have grown off of others before them. When written passages are taken from one teaching and repurposed for another (Ekankar vs. Eckankar anybody?). And when fictional characters are used to teach truths that fictional characters did not actually come up with.
What's real is that religions don't own the truth. And when religions mix truth with untruth (especially to profit by it) they are actually corrupting what is true and real. Not that fictions don't have a place, but when it comes to religions I think fictions should be qualified as fiction. Most importantly when it speaks about actual historical events when this way people are at greater liberty to find what is actually true and real; because there are times when it really matters. There are times when people following a path need to know the difference between what is true and real and what is not true and real. It could be a matter of life and death. Like when someone erases the words DANGER! DON'T GO HERE! from a sign that reads: DANGER! DON'T GO HERE! Etc.
Religions are often likened to paths that lead to higher levels of awareness via what is true and real. Take the not true and not real out of religion and religious dogma (including pseudo history) and what do you have left? MORE OF WHAT IS TRUE AND REAL!
"Guru Nanak gives us at the beginning a compact definition of the Force that Runs the Entire Universe. It is One – Ek. Is has vibration, sound – Ong – and from sound, from vibration it express itself in form – Kaar."
http://web.archive.org/web/20160202133437/http://www.sikhdharma.org/pages/mool-mantra-eokk

What role does intuition and the realization of oneness play in this terminology of different levels?

My understanding of Buddhi, or the Buddhic principle, is that it corresponds with the intuition, in which the self-other boundary is momentarily dissolved. And the Ahamkara corresponds with the Self or I consciousness, which is connected to the All/Absolute/Cosmic Consciousness, which is where oneness is perceived or experienced (Samadhi).
You are using the Freudian terms of Id, Ego and Superego, which I am not sure is what Freud had in mind when compared with the Sanskrit/Hindu terms and definitions. Is this part of a system or path that you are drawing from?

Got it. I’ve had more than a passing interest in Theosophy and Vedanta for many years. I was just trying to see the connections between the planes and the psychological conditions.

Philosophy is house paint over real human psychology, human nature, and human behavior. Psychic energy dominated by the pleasure principle and irrational wishing. So of course we love it.

:-) :-) :-)
Do you mean that people should stop acting like completely selfish pricks, operating on instinct alone, with no developed sense of inner conscience, no people skills, and character that everyone would do well to stay miles away from? Because no one is an island?
I couldn't agree more, but fat chance when no one rises above the idea of life as an emotional drama and all the narrative is kept to that of an emotional narrative.

20% is magic
80% is real

fife

2022-01-18 16:56:44 UTC

Today (and for many years) they (other orthodox religions, Eckankar included) obviously couldn't / can't cope with the truth. I.O.W. can't handle it. What? When "armies" go to battle over different versions of imagined fictions and pseudo history (neither of which are true)?
I'll try to explain what I mean. For many years in certain Eckankar circles if you mentioned the word Darwin Gross it was akin to conjuring the Devil! (Even though Darwin Gross was leader of Eckankar who succeeded the founder, Paul Twitchell and married his widow). Even though Darwin Gross served for a decade, was called The Living Eck Master and later The Mahanta, The Living Eck Master.
"Is it coincidence big changes followed the revelations of plagiarism and other things? The 10-year successor of Eckankar's modern-day founder gets a divorce (from founder's widow) and later (a couple years later?) chooses to "resign" his responsibilities as Living Eck Master to someone else? Someone else who (a couple years later?) "had him removed" from the organization altogether?"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/yTgikLCf4p0/m/jMERmWRt8MwJ
People were also trashed and publicly mocked for mentioning the word plagiarism and / or suggesting that certain Eckankar masters and history were fake.
What history shows (not just here on a.r.e.) about religions and how they treated other faiths was / is not all peaches and cream. Neither "Bright Future" and those riding for the "Eck Brand". Those who literally trashed and mocked other people (including Eckankar members and ex-Eckankar members) right here in a.r.e. (and on other forums) for decades! Some who made up lies and when challenged, denied they were untrue.
So if you ask me, the truth matters. And is the single most important thing when professing masters and godmen. At the same time partial "truth", and religion not telling the truth, is like a growing dilemma which inevitably spawns chaos after the actual whole truth and nothing but the truth get sacrificed for some kind of "freedom of religion".
Eckankar has a dictionary and lexicon. In it one can find the word sat, where the definition reads: " Truth; reality; existence; that which is not sat does not really exist; fundamental idea of truth is existence; the untrue does not exist; the true does." (p. 182, A Cosmic Sea of Words, THE ECKANKAR LEXICON, by Harold Klemp.) That would be the same word sat, as in satsang.
"Apart from everything else, you don't understand that if the wall you keep throwing your spitballs at came tumbling down there'd be nothing but ruins. No Eckankar to be an Eckist to the core by, with, for, about.
"You can't see or hear that at all because you're convinced that Eckankar is real, when it's not. Not any more than any other entrenched illusion. You're Don Quixote, Etznab."
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/MvKLuEnVtS0/m/oXVd0-vQAQAJ
And before Eckankar was Ekankar. And before that were other spellings and transliterations explaining what it was / is.
"The whole universe is considered as *one, the true Ekankar. There is perfect oneness in the universe, which is also coexistent with God - infinite, unlimited. Hence, the Soami is *nirankar, that is, formless. As such, he is without personality, hence without name." - Julian Johnson
" 'The whole universe is considered as One, the true ECKANKAR. There is perfect oneness in the universe, which is also co-existent with God, infinite, unlimited. Hence the SUGMAD is Nirankar, i.e. formless.' " - Rebazar Tarzs to Paul Twitchell
The "true" ******** is plagiarism and paraphrase?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/K6P7ycsiy38/m/tHHej5rNAAAJ
Contrary to Fife, members of religion, ex-members of religion, and even ordinary people can know what is true and real in spite of their religion. How many people go to church knowing full well that stories told for centuries are not all literally true? (Probably a similar amount of people who don't publicly question stories in order to find the true and the real.)
Don't question the written and spoken truth. Don't question leading authorities who know they are selling lies for truth and reality. Because if you do, the liars will come for you! They can't stand what is true and real when it puts their own fictional fantasy-based businesses in jeopardy (The same with politics). In order to silence competition, the truth-haters will tell you that your religion is just one big lie. The whole thing! And imho THAT IS a lie when truth (mixed with untruth) exists in all religions. When most religions have grown off of others before them. When written passages are taken from one teaching and repurposed for another (Ekankar vs. Eckankar anybody?). And when fictional characters are used to teach truths that fictional characters did not actually come up with.
What's real is that religions don't own the truth. And when religions mix truth with untruth (especially to profit by it) they are actually corrupting what is true and real. Not that fictions don't have a place, but when it comes to religions I think fictions should be qualified as fiction. Most importantly when it speaks about actual historical events when this way people are at greater liberty to find what is actually true and real; because there are times when it really matters. There are times when people following a path need to know the difference between what is true and real and what is not true and real. It could be a matter of life and death. Like when someone erases the words DANGER! DON'T GO HERE! from a sign that reads: DANGER! DON'T GO HERE! Etc.
Religions are often likened to paths that lead to higher levels of awareness via what is true and real. Take the not true and not real out of religion and religious dogma (including pseudo history) and what do you have left? MORE OF WHAT IS TRUE AND REAL!
"Guru Nanak gives us at the beginning a compact definition of the Force that Runs the Entire Universe. It is One – Ek. Is has vibration, sound – Ong – and from sound, from vibration it express itself in form – Kaar."
http://web.archive.org/web/20160202133437/http://www.sikhdharma.org/pages/mool-mantra-eokk

What role does intuition and the realization of oneness play in this terminology of different levels?

My understanding of Buddhi, or the Buddhic principle, is that it corresponds with the intuition, in which the self-other boundary is momentarily dissolved. And the Ahamkara corresponds with the Self or I consciousness, which is connected to the All/Absolute/Cosmic Consciousness, which is where oneness is perceived or experienced (Samadhi).
You are using the Freudian terms of Id, Ego and Superego, which I am not sure is what Freud had in mind when compared with the Sanskrit/Hindu terms and definitions. Is this part of a system or path that you are drawing from?

Got it. I’ve had more than a passing interest in Theosophy and Vedanta for many years. I was just trying to see the connections between the planes and the psychological conditions.

Philosophy is house paint over real human psychology, human nature, and human behavior. Psychic energy dominated by the pleasure principle and irrational wishing. So of course we love it.

:-) :-) :-)
Do you mean that people should stop acting like completely selfish pricks, operating on instinct alone, with no developed sense of inner conscience, no people skills, and character that everyone would do well to stay miles away from? Because no one is an island?
I couldn't agree more, but fat chance when no one rises above the idea of life as an emotional drama and all the narrative is kept to that of an emotional narrative.

"Used to be my life was just emotions passing by
Feeling all the while and never really knowing why"

Bread
1972

fife

2022-02-05 16:00:48 UTC