Discussion:
The Simple Story of Civilization (and the end of humanity as a species)
(too old to reply)
Henosis Sage
2023-01-07 07:42:36 UTC
Permalink
For something completely different
(an intro) The Cult of Civilization

Hearing the perspectives of ex-members of these cults never fails to be fascinating, providing a window into how they could have swallowed all the lies and goofy stories. Also important to know: it is possible to escape, and to suddenly see the magnitude of the deception. Once out, there’s no going back.

Cult beliefs look insane from the outside, so why don’t its adherents detect the lunacy? Why is it so hard to convince them of their folly? One possible answer—as a tangent—is that cults offer a deeply satisfying sense of identity, belonging, and (seemingly) unconditional acceptance/support within its community that we have otherwise lost in today’s society, but that in times past were central offerings of tribal life to which humans are intimately adapted. It is remarkable how quickly tribal cohesion instincts of mutual help resurface as soon as core elements of civilization (provision of food, water, electricity, for instance) fail in a natural disaster. We’ve still got it, underneath the veneer.

https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2022/10/the-cult-of-civilization/

----
the main article
The Simple Story of Civilization (and the end of humanity as a species)
https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2022/12/the-simple-story/

EXTRACT ....

I’m not interested in fantastical or magical thinking. The suggestion—against mounting evidence to the contrary—that we could (or should) maintain the architecture for this ecologically devastating mode of living for any significant duration strikes me as simply wishful and also heartbreaking. I’d like to get beyond that and be hard-nosed about what can really happen, subject to planetary limits: most importantly, preserving habitat and biodiversity.
But Big Brains?

A common reaction is: can’t we use our big brains to solve this problem? Extending civilization for even another 1,000 years will surely give us time to think of something, our faith tells us. What if that “something” is the realization that civilization is inherently unsustainable and must be replaced with alternate, simpler (but richly meaningful) approaches to life on Earth? Maybe we can use our brains to save ourselves some time, agony, and further devastation by reaching this conclusion sooner.

Implicit in the leading question above is usually the notion of a technological solution. My viewpoint has become that technology is not the right tool to solve a predicament caused by a technological approach. But yes, we can (and should) use our big brains. It’s just that the task at hand is to figure out how to adopt a whole new way of living on this planet and how to dismantle civilization in a way that is least destructive to biodiversity and to humans. We need to relinquish our hubristic (and illusory) grip on control and our naive ambition of total mastery. We fall into the trap of thinking: “if we just learn a little more, we’ll finally have it.” But it’s never enough, and never can be. We have barely scratched the surface of understanding the machinery of Earth’s ecosystems, and it’s a fool’s quest to imagine we can achieve the requisite omniscience to maintain a successful reign—especially as the biophysical clock ticks more and more urgently.

What we need to learn instead is how to live with the long-term constraints of the natural world as it is presented to us—not take it upon ourselves to shape it to our unrealistic wants and whims, which is a proposition certain to fail. It’s about responding and adapting in an attitude of humility, not solving, mastering, exerting, defining, and dictating. Our brains are nowhere near big enough to pull off complete wizardry over nature, but maybe they are big enough to make this leap of intentional humility. We’ve been there before. I hope we still have what it takes.

---

and discussion about it with Nate Hagens


(read his Reality Blind ebook https://read.realityblind.world/view/975731937/i/ )
Tisra Til
2023-01-24 20:57:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henosis Sage
For something completely different
(an intro) The Cult of Civilization
Hearing the perspectives of ex-members of these cults never fails to be fascinating, providing a window into how they could have swallowed all the lies and goofy stories. Also important to know: it is possible to escape, and to suddenly see the magnitude of the deception. Once out, there’s no going back.
Cult beliefs look insane from the outside, so why don’t its adherents detect the lunacy? Why is it so hard to convince them of their folly? One possible answer—as a tangent—is that cults offer a deeply satisfying sense of identity, belonging, and (seemingly) unconditional acceptance/support within its community that we have otherwise lost in today’s society, but that in times past were central offerings of tribal life to which humans are intimately adapted. It is remarkable how quickly tribal cohesion instincts of mutual help resurface as soon as core elements of civilization (provision of food, water, electricity, for instance) fail in a natural disaster. We’ve still got it, underneath the veneer.
https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2022/10/the-cult-of-civilization/
----
the main article
The Simple Story of Civilization (and the end of humanity as a species)
https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2022/12/the-simple-story/
EXTRACT ....
I’m not interested in fantastical or magical thinking. The suggestion—against mounting evidence to the contrary—that we could (or should) maintain the architecture for this ecologically devastating mode of living for any significant duration strikes me as simply wishful and also heartbreaking. I’d like to get beyond that and be hard-nosed about what can really happen, subject to planetary limits: most importantly, preserving habitat and biodiversity.
But Big Brains?
A common reaction is: can’t we use our big brains to solve this problem? Extending civilization for even another 1,000 years will surely give us time to think of something, our faith tells us. What if that “something” is the realization that civilization is inherently unsustainable and must be replaced with alternate, simpler (but richly meaningful) approaches to life on Earth? Maybe we can use our brains to save ourselves some time, agony, and further devastation by reaching this conclusion sooner.
Implicit in the leading question above is usually the notion of a technological solution. My viewpoint has become that technology is not the right tool to solve a predicament caused by a technological approach. But yes, we can (and should) use our big brains. It’s just that the task at hand is to figure out how to adopt a whole new way of living on this planet and how to dismantle civilization in a way that is least destructive to biodiversity and to humans. We need to relinquish our hubristic (and illusory) grip on control and our naive ambition of total mastery. We fall into the trap of thinking: “if we just learn a little more, we’ll finally have it.” But it’s never enough, and never can be. We have barely scratched the surface of understanding the machinery of Earth’s ecosystems, and it’s a fool’s quest to imagine we can achieve the requisite omniscience to maintain a successful reign—especially as the biophysical clock ticks more and more urgently.
What we need to learn instead is how to live with the long-term constraints of the natural world as it is presented to us—not take it upon ourselves to shape it to our unrealistic wants and whims, which is a proposition certain to fail. It’s about responding and adapting in an attitude of humility, not solving, mastering, exerting, defining, and dictating. Our brains are nowhere near big enough to pull off complete wizardry over nature, but maybe they are big enough to make this leap of intentional humility. We’ve been there before. I hope we still have what it takes.
---
and discussion about it with Nate Hagens
http://youtu.be/f6yFrh1X6DI
(read his Reality Blind ebook https://read.realityblind.world/view/975731937/i/ )
Enlightening. I"ve thought pretty much the same for a long time. I was interested in recycling a long time ago when just about everyone I knew wasn't. I kind of backslid for a little while when I became interested in motocross when I was 38. I had to drive substantial distances to get to the tracks in the area. I had started riding a street bike when I was 37, but I got into an accident and realized motocross had to be safer. It was the adrenaline rush, I guess. And the idea of man and machine becoming one. I did it for a decade.

Did you see the documentary Cowspiracy? I saw it a few years ago. The logistics and waste of feeding cattle for slaughter. Man...
Henosis Sage
2023-01-27 02:01:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henosis Sage
For something completely different
(an intro) The Cult of Civilization
Hearing the perspectives of ex-members of these cults never fails to be fascinating, providing a window into how they could have swallowed all the lies and goofy stories. Also important to know: it is possible to escape, and to suddenly see the magnitude of the deception. Once out, there’s no going back.
Cult beliefs look insane from the outside, so why don’t its adherents detect the lunacy? Why is it so hard to convince them of their folly? One possible answer—as a tangent—is that cults offer a deeply satisfying sense of identity, belonging, and (seemingly) unconditional acceptance/support within its community that we have otherwise lost in today’s society, but that in times past were central offerings of tribal life to which humans are intimately adapted. It is remarkable how quickly tribal cohesion instincts of mutual help resurface as soon as core elements of civilization (provision of food, water, electricity, for instance) fail in a natural disaster. We’ve still got it, underneath the veneer.
https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2022/10/the-cult-of-civilization/
----
the main article
The Simple Story of Civilization (and the end of humanity as a species)
https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2022/12/the-simple-story/
EXTRACT ....
I’m not interested in fantastical or magical thinking. The suggestion—against mounting evidence to the contrary—that we could (or should) maintain the architecture for this ecologically devastating mode of living for any significant duration strikes me as simply wishful and also heartbreaking. I’d like to get beyond that and be hard-nosed about what can really happen, subject to planetary limits: most importantly, preserving habitat and biodiversity.
But Big Brains?
A common reaction is: can’t we use our big brains to solve this problem? Extending civilization for even another 1,000 years will surely give us time to think of something, our faith tells us. What if that “something” is the realization that civilization is inherently unsustainable and must be replaced with alternate, simpler (but richly meaningful) approaches to life on Earth? Maybe we can use our brains to save ourselves some time, agony, and further devastation by reaching this conclusion sooner.
Implicit in the leading question above is usually the notion of a technological solution. My viewpoint has become that technology is not the right tool to solve a predicament caused by a technological approach. But yes, we can (and should) use our big brains. It’s just that the task at hand is to figure out how to adopt a whole new way of living on this planet and how to dismantle civilization in a way that is least destructive to biodiversity and to humans. We need to relinquish our hubristic (and illusory) grip on control and our naive ambition of total mastery. We fall into the trap of thinking: “if we just learn a little more, we’ll finally have it.” But it’s never enough, and never can be. We have barely scratched the surface of understanding the machinery of Earth’s ecosystems, and it’s a fool’s quest to imagine we can achieve the requisite omniscience to maintain a successful reign—especially as the biophysical clock ticks more and more urgently.
What we need to learn instead is how to live with the long-term constraints of the natural world as it is presented to us—not take it upon ourselves to shape it to our unrealistic wants and whims, which is a proposition certain to fail. It’s about responding and adapting in an attitude of humility, not solving, mastering, exerting, defining, and dictating. Our brains are nowhere near big enough to pull off complete wizardry over nature, but maybe they are big enough to make this leap of intentional humility. We’ve been there before. I hope we still have what it takes.
---
and discussion about it with Nate Hagens
http://youtu.be/f6yFrh1X6DI
(read his Reality Blind ebook https://read.realityblind.world/view/975731937/i/ )
Enlightening. I"ve thought pretty much the same for a long time. I was interested in recycling a long time ago when just about everyone I knew wasn't. I kind of backslid for a little while when I became interested in motocross when I was 38. I had to drive substantial distances to get to the tracks in the area. I had started riding a street bike when I was 37, but I got into an accident and realized motocross had to be safer. It was the adrenaline rush, I guess. And the idea of man and machine becoming one. I did it for a decade.
Did you see the documentary Cowspiracy? I saw it a few years ago. The logistics and waste of feeding cattle for slaughter. Man...
Hi TT, no I never saw cowspiracy but get the idea from other sources over the years. i was a trailbike rider in my teens early 20s ... rough and ready, it was a lot of fun. exciting way to burn up testosterone. :)

the above is interesting, I had seen several recent reports discussions about deteriorating civilisations from various sources. quite depressing and so hard to know how accurate such notions are, or are not. grabbed my attention, but to what end I have no idea. nothing i can do about it all.

I've been following many sources about ukraine and that's another global issue, looks like ww3 is on the cards very soon. so no one will be worrying about climate change or cows or biodiversity destruction etc for a long time. I recall in the early 2010s eg around 2012 especially and astrology matters since then a repeated theme of major war/s and social/economic etc restructuring coming in early 2020s to 2030 .... seems like those projections were quite spot on. everything is being disrupted imho.

the world seems to be more crazy and destructive than ever. or perhaps i was living in denial all my life and not seeing things accurately. ??? anyway, today it's more like - The Empire of Lies will spin any Orwellian tale it wants and the majority of people in the Empire will accept it as things stand today. - The non west does not seem to understand, these people (anglo/saxon/europeans - the golden Billion, the "west" ) are basically the East India company, which was a bloodthirsty and greedy force from the beginning to the end.................. so I'm thinking, hey, it's always been like this and propaganda has always been covering it up and denying all the evil abuse and destruction being done by those with the power to do as they like?????

But maybe (as Twitchell used to say) everything is exactly as it is supposed to be right now ..... it couldn't be any other way. good luck and best wishes.
Jonathan Wobesky
2023-03-20 20:05:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Henosis Sage
For something completely different
(an intro) The Cult of Civilization
Hearing the perspectives of ex-members of these cults never fails to be fascinating, providing a window into how they could have swallowed all the lies and goofy stories. Also important to know: it is possible to escape, and to suddenly see the magnitude of the deception. Once out, there’s no going back.
Cult beliefs look insane from the outside, so why don’t its adherents detect the lunacy? Why is it so hard to convince them of their folly? One possible answer—as a tangent—is that cults offer a deeply satisfying sense of identity, belonging, and (seemingly) unconditional acceptance/support within its community that we have otherwise lost in today’s society, but that in times past were central offerings of tribal life to which humans are intimately adapted. It is remarkable how quickly tribal cohesion instincts of mutual help resurface as soon as core elements of civilization (provision of food, water, electricity, for instance) fail in a natural disaster. We’ve still got it, underneath the veneer.
https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2022/10/the-cult-of-civilization/
----
the main article
The Simple Story of Civilization (and the end of humanity as a species)
https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2022/12/the-simple-story/
EXTRACT ....
I’m not interested in fantastical or magical thinking. The suggestion—against mounting evidence to the contrary—that we could (or should) maintain the architecture for this ecologically devastating mode of living for any significant duration strikes me as simply wishful and also heartbreaking. I’d like to get beyond that and be hard-nosed about what can really happen, subject to planetary limits: most importantly, preserving habitat and biodiversity.
But Big Brains?
A common reaction is: can’t we use our big brains to solve this problem? Extending civilization for even another 1,000 years will surely give us time to think of something, our faith tells us. What if that “something” is the realization that civilization is inherently unsustainable and must be replaced with alternate, simpler (but richly meaningful) approaches to life on Earth? Maybe we can use our brains to save ourselves some time, agony, and further devastation by reaching this conclusion sooner.
Implicit in the leading question above is usually the notion of a technological solution. My viewpoint has become that technology is not the right tool to solve a predicament caused by a technological approach. But yes, we can (and should) use our big brains. It’s just that the task at hand is to figure out how to adopt a whole new way of living on this planet and how to dismantle civilization in a way that is least destructive to biodiversity and to humans. We need to relinquish our hubristic (and illusory) grip on control and our naive ambition of total mastery. We fall into the trap of thinking: “if we just learn a little more, we’ll finally have it.” But it’s never enough, and never can be. We have barely scratched the surface of understanding the machinery of Earth’s ecosystems, and it’s a fool’s quest to imagine we can achieve the requisite omniscience to maintain a successful reign—especially as the biophysical clock ticks more and more urgently.
What we need to learn instead is how to live with the long-term constraints of the natural world as it is presented to us—not take it upon ourselves to shape it to our unrealistic wants and whims, which is a proposition certain to fail. It’s about responding and adapting in an attitude of humility, not solving, mastering, exerting, defining, and dictating. Our brains are nowhere near big enough to pull off complete wizardry over nature, but maybe they are big enough to make this leap of intentional humility. We’ve been there before. I hope we still have what it takes.
---
and discussion about it with Nate Hagens
http://youtu.be/f6yFrh1X6DI
(read his Reality Blind ebook https://read.realityblind.world/view/975731937/i/ )
Enlightening. I"ve thought pretty much the same for a long time. I was interested in recycling a long time ago when just about everyone I knew wasn't. I kind of backslid for a little while when I became interested in motocross when I was 38. I had to drive substantial distances to get to the tracks in the area. I had started riding a street bike when I was 37, but I got into an accident and realized motocross had to be safer. It was the adrenaline rush, I guess. And the idea of man and machine becoming one. I did it for a decade.
Did you see the documentary Cowspiracy? I saw it a few years ago. The logistics and waste of feeding cattle for slaughter. Man...
Hi TT, no I never saw cowspiracy but get the idea from other sources over the years. i was a trailbike rider in my teens early 20s ... rough and ready, it was a lot of fun. exciting way to burn up testosterone. :)
the above is interesting, I had seen several recent reports discussions about deteriorating civilisations from various sources. quite depressing and so hard to know how accurate such notions are, or are not. grabbed my attention, but to what end I have no idea. nothing i can do about it all.
I've been following many sources about ukraine and that's another global issue, looks like ww3 is on the cards very soon. so no one will be worrying about climate change or cows or biodiversity destruction etc for a long time. I recall in the early 2010s eg around 2012 especially and astrology matters since then a repeated theme of major war/s and social/economic etc restructuring coming in early 2020s to 2030 .... seems like those projections were quite spot on. everything is being disrupted imho.
the world seems to be more crazy and destructive than ever. or perhaps i was living in denial all my life and not seeing things accurately. ??? anyway, today it's more like - The Empire of Lies will spin any Orwellian tale it wants and the majority of people in the Empire will accept it as things stand today. - The non west does not seem to understand, these people (anglo/saxon/europeans - the golden Billion, the "west" ) are basically the East India company, which was a bloodthirsty and greedy force from the beginning to the end.................. so I'm thinking, hey, it's always been like this and propaganda has always been covering it up and denying all the evil abuse and destruction being done by those with the power to do as they like?????
But maybe (as Twitchell used to say) everything is exactly as it is supposed to be right now ..... it couldn't be any other way. good luck and best wishes.
On a wide and vast scale where only a small % of planetary civilizations make it through the wormhole of a change to post carbon burning technology, PT is right. If one needs to reimbody there are plenty of gigs available off Earth.
Loading...