Discussion:
"The next three ECK Masters will not have the Mahanta consciousness"
(too old to reply)
Orion McClure
2021-08-01 08:37:53 UTC
Permalink
This is what Sri Harold once announced regarding the future of the ECKANKAR orginazation. Probably the members of ECK have to expect that the successor of Sri Harold will be at most an 8th initiate — at least better than the choice of Sri Darwin at that time, who was only a second initiate when he was chosen as successor of Sri Paul. I would even go so far as to say that there will be no successor at all and ECKANKAR will function as a pure study group without master or leader in the future.
wernertrp
2021-08-01 13:07:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orion McClure
This is what Sri Harold once announced regarding the future of the ECKANKAR orginazation. Probably the members of ECK have to expect that the successor of Sri Harold will be at most an 8th initiate — at least better than the choice of Sri Darwin at that time, who was only a second initiate when he was chosen as successor of Sri Paul. I would even go so far as to say that there will be no successor at all and ECKANKAR will function as a pure study group without master or leader in the future.
Endlich mal einer in a.r.e. wo man die Fresse sieht.
wernertrp
2021-08-01 13:09:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by wernertrp
Post by Orion McClure
This is what Sri Harold once announced regarding the future of the ECKANKAR orginazation. Probably the members of ECK have to expect that the successor of Sri Harold will be at most an 8th initiate — at least better than the choice of Sri Darwin at that time, who was only a second initiate when he was chosen as successor of Sri Paul. I would even go so far as to say that there will be no successor at all and ECKANKAR will function as a pure study group without master or leader in the future.
Endlich mal einer in a.r.e. wo man die Fresse sieht.
Was ist schon Mahanta consciousness.
Das hat sogar meine Oma.
Etznab
2021-08-01 13:14:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orion McClure
This is what Sri Harold once announced regarding the future of the ECKANKAR orginazation. Probably the members of ECK have to expect that the successor of Sri Harold will be at most an 8th initiate — at least better than the choice of Sri Darwin at that time, who was only a second initiate when he was chosen as successor of Sri Paul. I would even go so far as to say that there will be no successor at all and ECKANKAR will function as a pure study group without master or leader in the future.
Aside from Paul Twitchell, the founder, nobody afterward was named Mahanta. However, each one in turn did proclaim their self the Mahanta.

So I think it doesn't really matter what Harold said. In fact, Paul Twitchell said something similar that later didn't turn out to be true.

I think it really interesting what is happening with Eckankar dogma. And it seems there are two polar opposite positions. One would be no successor and Eckankar becoming a study group, whatever. The other position being continued fabrications, pseudo history and religion. I find it interesting for the future of religion generally. The option of coming clean, telling the truth and eating some humble pie.

Younger people, it seems, do not feel it hip being force fed bullshit and lies. The older congregants are dying off and Nones are growing in number. I think it because new generations have something the older ones did not have. Like computers and information.
Etznab
2021-08-01 13:27:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orion McClure
This is what Sri Harold once announced regarding the future of the ECKANKAR orginazation. Probably the members of ECK have to expect that the successor of Sri Harold will be at most an 8th initiate — at least better than the choice of Sri Darwin at that time, who was only a second initiate when he was chosen as successor of Sri Paul. I would even go so far as to say that there will be no successor at all and ECKANKAR will function as a pure study group without master or leader in the future.
Aside from Paul Twitchell, the founder, nobody afterward was named Mahanta. However, each one in turn did proclaim their self the Mahanta.
So I think it doesn't really matter what Harold said. In fact, Paul Twitchell said something similar that later didn't turn out to be true.
I think it really interesting what is happening with Eckankar dogma. And it seems there are two polar opposite positions. One would be no successor and Eckankar becoming a study group, whatever. The other position being continued fabrications, pseudo history and religion. I find it interesting for the future of religion generally. The option of coming clean, telling the truth and eating some humble pie.
Younger people, it seems, do not feel it hip being force fed bullshit and lies. The older congregants are dying off and Nones are growing in number. I think it because new generations have something the older ones did not have. Like computers and information.
REVISITING "THE WHOLE TRUTH" - quotes list

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/4ysJK655x2I/m/ugXEgdQWAwAJ

IMO this is how a religious apologist uses fiction and spin to further the cause. Fiction and spin being one of the "freedoms of religion". Like ability to make up whatever. Yet, even the apologist could not escape the following conclusion.

"[...] The only area that I don't think looks good is Paul's lack of crediting his sources, to the point of making it look like he, or Rebazar Tarzs, was the original source. This looks especially bad these days, since copyright law has become much more controlled and publicized. However, it doesn't appear to have been much of a problem while Paul was alive. [... .]"

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/Er0VHRTk_sc/m/NQYn-wQ00FIJ

IMO it not only looks bad, but it looks VERY, VERY, VERY bad! And this would be the other position concerning the truth. So like with social media generally today, there is a war going on between fact and fiction with people taking opposite sides.
Henosis Sage
2021-08-02 05:51:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Etznab
Post by Orion McClure
This is what Sri Harold once announced regarding the future of the ECKANKAR orginazation. Probably the members of ECK have to expect that the successor of Sri Harold will be at most an 8th initiate — at least better than the choice of Sri Darwin at that time, who was only a second initiate when he was chosen as successor of Sri Paul. I would even go so far as to say that there will be no successor at all and ECKANKAR will function as a pure study group without master or leader in the future.
Aside from Paul Twitchell, the founder, nobody afterward was named Mahanta. However, each one in turn did proclaim their self the Mahanta.
So I think it doesn't really matter what Harold said. In fact, Paul Twitchell said something similar that later didn't turn out to be true.
I think it really interesting what is happening with Eckankar dogma. And it seems there are two polar opposite positions. One would be no successor and Eckankar becoming a study group, whatever. The other position being continued fabrications, pseudo history and religion. I find it interesting for the future of religion generally. The option of coming clean, telling the truth and eating some humble pie.
Younger people, it seems, do not feel it hip being force fed bullshit and lies. The older congregants are dying off and Nones are growing in number. I think it because new generations have something the older ones did not have. Like computers and information.
REVISITING "THE WHOLE TRUTH" - quotes list
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/4ysJK655x2I/m/ugXEgdQWAwAJ
IMO this is how a religious apologist uses fiction and spin to further the cause. Fiction and spin being one of the "freedoms of religion". Like ability to make up whatever. Yet, even the apologist could not escape the following conclusion.
"[...] The only area that I don't think looks good is Paul's lack of crediting his sources, to the point of making it look like he, or Rebazar Tarzs, was the original source. This looks especially bad these days, since copyright law has become much more controlled and publicized. However, it doesn't appear to have been much of a problem while Paul was alive. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/Er0VHRTk_sc/m/NQYn-wQ00FIJ
IMO it not only looks bad, but it looks VERY, VERY, VERY bad! And this would be the other position concerning the truth. So like with social media generally today, there is a war going on between fact and fiction with people taking opposite sides.
Plus, and importantly so, it was a problem when Paul was alive, and working as a writer, pulp fiction author, pseudo journo, advertising copy writer etc.

EG 1968 1968 Paul Twitchell totally rejected by Orion Magazine for Plagiarism
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPT3VpS053V1Jia0E/view?resourcekey=0-p4siqlTQO2a-lkeOFatNTw

SEE PLAGIARISM FOLDER https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdzZTdGxkNjBTR1U?resourcekey=0-MtZhCP-XYt9ZJWGKD_TngQ

There's another report back from 1939/40 of someone who knew Twitchell in Paducah when he started writing, and this 'writer' reports on Twitchell copying things back then, and how unpalatable it was to him. Now, can;t find that ref, but it's somewhere.

Twitchell was ALWAYS PLAGIARIZING AND COPYING OTHERS' WORKS FROM THE DAY HE BOUGHT HIS TYPEWRITER. ;-)

MARMAN, is full of opinionated BS that no one else cared about that. And the BS and MYTHS he made up as he went. That Twitchell had no conscience about this is irrelevant.

DARWIN side bar, there was substantive evidence anecdotal reports by people who were there, that Darwin was at least a 6th initiate (the same as Patti Simpson - Bluth was an 8th) when Twitchell died. Darwin was definitely not a 2nd .... he was acknowledged as a new 5th (leader of NW USA sasang) in the eck world news (or similar) in 1970.
=====================
OK .. here's my record, after collecting research on the matter - cant find original info
Darwin Gross got the 6th Initiation in July 1971 and was being appointed as a leader/HI of the NW
for Eckankar. This is recorded in Eck publication. Darwin had got the 5th Initiation from Paul
Twitchell in London in January 1971. This was around the same time that Patti Simpson got her 5th
Initiation from Paul.

SEE . https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPcGh2Q2N2RFpaMEE/view?resourcekey=0-IXVPOkgjhlTnVp7rd9cMow
=====================

and with regard to what Harold might have said, about anything, well imo, nothing he has said should be thought reliable or grounded.

Of course think differently, but that's their business and choice.

misc info

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPZ2JhTjh0Zi1MZ2c/view?resourcekey=0-p0fBzEG59COJu0aE89lUeQ

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdFd5OVVrc0htb2M/view?resourcekey=0-Bd2zpEeHJp6bdyhjbjnqfA
Henosis Sage
2021-08-02 05:52:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Etznab
Post by Orion McClure
This is what Sri Harold once announced regarding the future of the ECKANKAR orginazation. Probably the members of ECK have to expect that the successor of Sri Harold will be at most an 8th initiate — at least better than the choice of Sri Darwin at that time, who was only a second initiate when he was chosen as successor of Sri Paul. I would even go so far as to say that there will be no successor at all and ECKANKAR will function as a pure study group without master or leader in the future.
Aside from Paul Twitchell, the founder, nobody afterward was named Mahanta. However, each one in turn did proclaim their self the Mahanta.
So I think it doesn't really matter what Harold said. In fact, Paul Twitchell said something similar that later didn't turn out to be true.
I think it really interesting what is happening with Eckankar dogma. And it seems there are two polar opposite positions. One would be no successor and Eckankar becoming a study group, whatever. The other position being continued fabrications, pseudo history and religion. I find it interesting for the future of religion generally. The option of coming clean, telling the truth and eating some humble pie.
Younger people, it seems, do not feel it hip being force fed bullshit and lies. The older congregants are dying off and Nones are growing in number. I think it because new generations have something the older ones did not have. Like computers and information.
REVISITING "THE WHOLE TRUTH" - quotes list
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/4ysJK655x2I/m/ugXEgdQWAwAJ
IMO this is how a religious apologist uses fiction and spin to further the cause. Fiction and spin being one of the "freedoms of religion". Like ability to make up whatever. Yet, even the apologist could not escape the following conclusion.
"[...] The only area that I don't think looks good is Paul's lack of crediting his sources, to the point of making it look like he, or Rebazar Tarzs, was the original source. This looks especially bad these days, since copyright law has become much more controlled and publicized. However, it doesn't appear to have been much of a problem while Paul was alive. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/Er0VHRTk_sc/m/NQYn-wQ00FIJ
IMO it not only looks bad, but it looks VERY, VERY, VERY bad! And this would be the other position concerning the truth. So like with social media generally today, there is a war going on between fact and fiction with people taking opposite sides.
Plus, and importantly so, it was a problem when Paul was alive, and working as a writer, pulp fiction author, pseudo journo, advertising copy writer etc.
EG 1968 1968 Paul Twitchell totally rejected by Orion Magazine for Plagiarism
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPT3VpS053V1Jia0E/view?resourcekey=0-p4siqlTQO2a-lkeOFatNTw
SEE PLAGIARISM FOLDER https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdzZTdGxkNjBTR1U?resourcekey=0-MtZhCP-XYt9ZJWGKD_TngQ
There's another report back from 1939/40 of someone who knew Twitchell in Paducah when he started writing, and this 'writer' reports on Twitchell copying things back then, and how unpalatable it was to him. Now, can;t find that ref, but it's somewhere.
Twitchell was ALWAYS PLAGIARIZING AND COPYING OTHERS' WORKS FROM THE DAY HE BOUGHT HIS TYPEWRITER. ;-)
MARMAN, is full of opinionated BS that no one else cared about that. And the BS and MYTHS he made up as he went. That Twitchell had no conscience about this is irrelevant.
DARWIN side bar, there was substantive evidence anecdotal reports by people who were there, that Darwin was at least a 6th initiate (the same as Patti Simpson - Bluth was an 8th) when Twitchell died. Darwin was definitely not a 2nd .... he was acknowledged as a new 5th (leader of NW USA sasang) in the eck world news (or similar) in 1970.
=====================
OK .. here's my record, after collecting research on the matter - cant find original info
Darwin Gross got the 6th Initiation in July 1971 and was being appointed as a leader/HI of the NW
for Eckankar. This is recorded in Eck publication. Darwin had got the 5th Initiation from Paul
Twitchell in London in January 1971. This was around the same time that Patti Simpson got her 5th
Initiation from Paul.
SEE . https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPcGh2Q2N2RFpaMEE/view?resourcekey=0-IXVPOkgjhlTnVp7rd9cMow
=====================
and with regard to what Harold might have said, about anything, well imo, nothing he has said should be thought reliable or grounded.
Of course think differently, but that's their business and choice.
misc info
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPZ2JhTjh0Zi1MZ2c/view?resourcekey=0-p0fBzEG59COJu0aE89lUeQ
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdFd5OVVrc0htb2M/view?resourcekey=0-Bd2zpEeHJp6bdyhjbjnqfA
PAUL TWITCHELL ECKANKAR HISTORY ARCHIVE
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPalFWRzl6YmlmM00
Henosis Sage
2021-08-03 09:24:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Etznab
Post by Orion McClure
This is what Sri Harold once announced regarding the future of the ECKANKAR orginazation. Probably the members of ECK have to expect that the successor of Sri Harold will be at most an 8th initiate — at least better than the choice of Sri Darwin at that time, who was only a second initiate when he was chosen as successor of Sri Paul. I would even go so far as to say that there will be no successor at all and ECKANKAR will function as a pure study group without master or leader in the future.
Aside from Paul Twitchell, the founder, nobody afterward was named Mahanta. However, each one in turn did proclaim their self the Mahanta.
So I think it doesn't really matter what Harold said. In fact, Paul Twitchell said something similar that later didn't turn out to be true.
I think it really interesting what is happening with Eckankar dogma. And it seems there are two polar opposite positions. One would be no successor and Eckankar becoming a study group, whatever. The other position being continued fabrications, pseudo history and religion. I find it interesting for the future of religion generally. The option of coming clean, telling the truth and eating some humble pie.
Younger people, it seems, do not feel it hip being force fed bullshit and lies. The older congregants are dying off and Nones are growing in number. I think it because new generations have something the older ones did not have. Like computers and information.
REVISITING "THE WHOLE TRUTH" - quotes list
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/4ysJK655x2I/m/ugXEgdQWAwAJ
IMO this is how a religious apologist uses fiction and spin to further the cause. Fiction and spin being one of the "freedoms of religion". Like ability to make up whatever. Yet, even the apologist could not escape the following conclusion.
"[...] The only area that I don't think looks good is Paul's lack of crediting his sources, to the point of making it look like he, or Rebazar Tarzs, was the original source. This looks especially bad these days, since copyright law has become much more controlled and publicized. However, it doesn't appear to have been much of a problem while Paul was alive. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/Er0VHRTk_sc/m/NQYn-wQ00FIJ
IMO it not only looks bad, but it looks VERY, VERY, VERY bad! And this would be the other position concerning the truth. So like with social media generally today, there is a war going on between fact and fiction with people taking opposite sides.
Plus, and importantly so, it was a problem when Paul was alive, and working as a writer, pulp fiction author, pseudo journo, advertising copy writer etc.
EG 1968 1968 Paul Twitchell totally rejected by Orion Magazine for Plagiarism
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPT3VpS053V1Jia0E/view?resourcekey=0-p4siqlTQO2a-lkeOFatNTw
SEE PLAGIARISM FOLDER https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdzZTdGxkNjBTR1U?resourcekey=0-MtZhCP-XYt9ZJWGKD_TngQ
There's another report back from 1939/40 of someone who knew Twitchell in Paducah when he started writing, and this 'writer' reports on Twitchell copying things back then, and how unpalatable it was to him. Now, can;t find that ref, but it's somewhere.
Twitchell was ALWAYS PLAGIARIZING AND COPYING OTHERS' WORKS FROM THE DAY HE BOUGHT HIS TYPEWRITER. ;-)
MARMAN, is full of opinionated BS that no one else cared about that. And the BS and MYTHS he made up as he went. That Twitchell had no conscience about this is irrelevant.
DARWIN side bar, there was substantive evidence anecdotal reports by people who were there, that Darwin was at least a 6th initiate (the same as Patti Simpson - Bluth was an 8th) when Twitchell died. Darwin was definitely not a 2nd .... he was acknowledged as a new 5th (leader of NW USA sasang) in the eck world news (or similar) in 1970.
=====================
OK .. here's my record, after collecting research on the matter - cant find original info
Darwin Gross got the 6th Initiation in July 1971 and was being appointed as a leader/HI of the NW
for Eckankar. This is recorded in Eck publication. Darwin had got the 5th Initiation from Paul
Twitchell in London in January 1971. This was around the same time that Patti Simpson got her 5th
Initiation from Paul.
SEE . https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPcGh2Q2N2RFpaMEE/view?resourcekey=0-IXVPOkgjhlTnVp7rd9cMow
=====================
and with regard to what Harold might have said, about anything, well imo, nothing he has said should be thought reliable or grounded.
Of course think differently, but that's their business and choice.
misc info
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPZ2JhTjh0Zi1MZ2c/view?resourcekey=0-p0fBzEG59COJu0aE89lUeQ
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdFd5OVVrc0htb2M/view?resourcekey=0-Bd2zpEeHJp6bdyhjbjnqfA
PAUL TWITCHELL ECKANKAR HISTORY ARCHIVE
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPalFWRzl6YmlmM00
I was a negated 2. initiate.
I had a dream of an earthquake
and woke up and found myself laying beside my bed.
I never fall out of my bed. Neither before neither after this happaning.
Now that was trippy Werner.

If you were asleep dreaming, how do you know you didn't fall out of your bed?
wernertrp
2021-08-03 14:59:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Etznab
Post by Orion McClure
This is what Sri Harold once announced regarding the future of the ECKANKAR orginazation. Probably the members of ECK have to expect that the successor of Sri Harold will be at most an 8th initiate — at least better than the choice of Sri Darwin at that time, who was only a second initiate when he was chosen as successor of Sri Paul. I would even go so far as to say that there will be no successor at all and ECKANKAR will function as a pure study group without master or leader in the future.
Aside from Paul Twitchell, the founder, nobody afterward was named Mahanta. However, each one in turn did proclaim their self the Mahanta.
So I think it doesn't really matter what Harold said. In fact, Paul Twitchell said something similar that later didn't turn out to be true.
I think it really interesting what is happening with Eckankar dogma. And it seems there are two polar opposite positions. One would be no successor and Eckankar becoming a study group, whatever. The other position being continued fabrications, pseudo history and religion. I find it interesting for the future of religion generally. The option of coming clean, telling the truth and eating some humble pie.
Younger people, it seems, do not feel it hip being force fed bullshit and lies. The older congregants are dying off and Nones are growing in number. I think it because new generations have something the older ones did not have. Like computers and information.
REVISITING "THE WHOLE TRUTH" - quotes list
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/4ysJK655x2I/m/ugXEgdQWAwAJ
IMO this is how a religious apologist uses fiction and spin to further the cause. Fiction and spin being one of the "freedoms of religion". Like ability to make up whatever. Yet, even the apologist could not escape the following conclusion.
"[...] The only area that I don't think looks good is Paul's lack of crediting his sources, to the point of making it look like he, or Rebazar Tarzs, was the original source. This looks especially bad these days, since copyright law has become much more controlled and publicized. However, it doesn't appear to have been much of a problem while Paul was alive. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/Er0VHRTk_sc/m/NQYn-wQ00FIJ
IMO it not only looks bad, but it looks VERY, VERY, VERY bad! And this would be the other position concerning the truth. So like with social media generally today, there is a war going on between fact and fiction with people taking opposite sides.
Plus, and importantly so, it was a problem when Paul was alive, and working as a writer, pulp fiction author, pseudo journo, advertising copy writer etc.
EG 1968 1968 Paul Twitchell totally rejected by Orion Magazine for Plagiarism
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPT3VpS053V1Jia0E/view?resourcekey=0-p4siqlTQO2a-lkeOFatNTw
SEE PLAGIARISM FOLDER https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdzZTdGxkNjBTR1U?resourcekey=0-MtZhCP-XYt9ZJWGKD_TngQ
There's another report back from 1939/40 of someone who knew Twitchell in Paducah when he started writing, and this 'writer' reports on Twitchell copying things back then, and how unpalatable it was to him. Now, can;t find that ref, but it's somewhere.
Twitchell was ALWAYS PLAGIARIZING AND COPYING OTHERS' WORKS FROM THE DAY HE BOUGHT HIS TYPEWRITER. ;-)
MARMAN, is full of opinionated BS that no one else cared about that. And the BS and MYTHS he made up as he went. That Twitchell had no conscience about this is irrelevant.
DARWIN side bar, there was substantive evidence anecdotal reports by people who were there, that Darwin was at least a 6th initiate (the same as Patti Simpson - Bluth was an 8th) when Twitchell died. Darwin was definitely not a 2nd .... he was acknowledged as a new 5th (leader of NW USA sasang) in the eck world news (or similar) in 1970.
=====================
OK .. here's my record, after collecting research on the matter - cant find original info
Darwin Gross got the 6th Initiation in July 1971 and was being appointed as a leader/HI of the NW
for Eckankar. This is recorded in Eck publication. Darwin had got the 5th Initiation from Paul
Twitchell in London in January 1971. This was around the same time that Patti Simpson got her 5th
Initiation from Paul.
SEE . https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPcGh2Q2N2RFpaMEE/view?resourcekey=0-IXVPOkgjhlTnVp7rd9cMow
=====================
and with regard to what Harold might have said, about anything, well imo, nothing he has said should be thought reliable or grounded.
Of course think differently, but that's their business and choice.
misc info
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPZ2JhTjh0Zi1MZ2c/view?resourcekey=0-p0fBzEG59COJu0aE89lUeQ
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdFd5OVVrc0htb2M/view?resourcekey=0-Bd2zpEeHJp6bdyhjbjnqfA
PAUL TWITCHELL ECKANKAR HISTORY ARCHIVE
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPalFWRzl6YmlmM00
I was a negated 2. initiate.
I had a dream of an earthquake
and woke up and found myself laying beside my bed.
I never fall out of my bed. Neither before neither after this happaning.
Now that was trippy Werner.
If you were asleep dreaming, how do you know you didn't fall out of your bed?
When the dream of the earthquake has ended I
woke up and found myself outside my bed.
fife
2021-08-03 20:09:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by wernertrp
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Etznab
Post by Orion McClure
This is what Sri Harold once announced regarding the future of the ECKANKAR orginazation. Probably the members of ECK have to expect that the successor of Sri Harold will be at most an 8th initiate — at least better than the choice of Sri Darwin at that time, who was only a second initiate when he was chosen as successor of Sri Paul. I would even go so far as to say that there will be no successor at all and ECKANKAR will function as a pure study group without master or leader in the future.
Aside from Paul Twitchell, the founder, nobody afterward was named Mahanta. However, each one in turn did proclaim their self the Mahanta.
So I think it doesn't really matter what Harold said. In fact, Paul Twitchell said something similar that later didn't turn out to be true.
I think it really interesting what is happening with Eckankar dogma. And it seems there are two polar opposite positions. One would be no successor and Eckankar becoming a study group, whatever. The other position being continued fabrications, pseudo history and religion. I find it interesting for the future of religion generally. The option of coming clean, telling the truth and eating some humble pie.
Younger people, it seems, do not feel it hip being force fed bullshit and lies. The older congregants are dying off and Nones are growing in number. I think it because new generations have something the older ones did not have. Like computers and information.
REVISITING "THE WHOLE TRUTH" - quotes list
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/4ysJK655x2I/m/ugXEgdQWAwAJ
IMO this is how a religious apologist uses fiction and spin to further the cause. Fiction and spin being one of the "freedoms of religion". Like ability to make up whatever. Yet, even the apologist could not escape the following conclusion.
"[...] The only area that I don't think looks good is Paul's lack of crediting his sources, to the point of making it look like he, or Rebazar Tarzs, was the original source. This looks especially bad these days, since copyright law has become much more controlled and publicized. However, it doesn't appear to have been much of a problem while Paul was alive. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/Er0VHRTk_sc/m/NQYn-wQ00FIJ
IMO it not only looks bad, but it looks VERY, VERY, VERY bad! And this would be the other position concerning the truth. So like with social media generally today, there is a war going on between fact and fiction with people taking opposite sides.
Plus, and importantly so, it was a problem when Paul was alive, and working as a writer, pulp fiction author, pseudo journo, advertising copy writer etc.
EG 1968 1968 Paul Twitchell totally rejected by Orion Magazine for Plagiarism
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPT3VpS053V1Jia0E/view?resourcekey=0-p4siqlTQO2a-lkeOFatNTw
SEE PLAGIARISM FOLDER https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdzZTdGxkNjBTR1U?resourcekey=0-MtZhCP-XYt9ZJWGKD_TngQ
There's another report back from 1939/40 of someone who knew Twitchell in Paducah when he started writing, and this 'writer' reports on Twitchell copying things back then, and how unpalatable it was to him. Now, can;t find that ref, but it's somewhere.
Twitchell was ALWAYS PLAGIARIZING AND COPYING OTHERS' WORKS FROM THE DAY HE BOUGHT HIS TYPEWRITER. ;-)
MARMAN, is full of opinionated BS that no one else cared about that. And the BS and MYTHS he made up as he went. That Twitchell had no conscience about this is irrelevant.
DARWIN side bar, there was substantive evidence anecdotal reports by people who were there, that Darwin was at least a 6th initiate (the same as Patti Simpson - Bluth was an 8th) when Twitchell died. Darwin was definitely not a 2nd .... he was acknowledged as a new 5th (leader of NW USA sasang) in the eck world news (or similar) in 1970.
=====================
OK .. here's my record, after collecting research on the matter - cant find original info
Darwin Gross got the 6th Initiation in July 1971 and was being appointed as a leader/HI of the NW
for Eckankar. This is recorded in Eck publication. Darwin had got the 5th Initiation from Paul
Twitchell in London in January 1971. This was around the same time that Patti Simpson got her 5th
Initiation from Paul.
SEE . https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPcGh2Q2N2RFpaMEE/view?resourcekey=0-IXVPOkgjhlTnVp7rd9cMow
=====================
and with regard to what Harold might have said, about anything, well imo, nothing he has said should be thought reliable or grounded.
Of course think differently, but that's their business and choice.
misc info
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPZ2JhTjh0Zi1MZ2c/view?resourcekey=0-p0fBzEG59COJu0aE89lUeQ
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdFd5OVVrc0htb2M/view?resourcekey=0-Bd2zpEeHJp6bdyhjbjnqfA
PAUL TWITCHELL ECKANKAR HISTORY ARCHIVE
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPalFWRzl6YmlmM00
I was a negated 2. initiate.
I had a dream of an earthquake
and woke up and found myself laying beside my bed.
I never fall out of my bed. Neither before neither after this happaning.
Now that was trippy Werner.
If you were asleep dreaming, how do you know you didn't fall out of your bed?
When the dream of the earthquake has ended I
woke up and found myself outside my bed.
Werner. That was very inconsiderate of the aliens that abducted you not to put you back in your bed the way they found you.
wernertrp
2021-08-11 14:57:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by fife
Post by wernertrp
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Etznab
Post by Orion McClure
This is what Sri Harold once announced regarding the future of the ECKANKAR orginazation. Probably the members of ECK have to expect that the successor of Sri Harold will be at most an 8th initiate — at least better than the choice of Sri Darwin at that time, who was only a second initiate when he was chosen as successor of Sri Paul. I would even go so far as to say that there will be no successor at all and ECKANKAR will function as a pure study group without master or leader in the future.
Aside from Paul Twitchell, the founder, nobody afterward was named Mahanta. However, each one in turn did proclaim their self the Mahanta.
So I think it doesn't really matter what Harold said. In fact, Paul Twitchell said something similar that later didn't turn out to be true.
I think it really interesting what is happening with Eckankar dogma. And it seems there are two polar opposite positions. One would be no successor and Eckankar becoming a study group, whatever. The other position being continued fabrications, pseudo history and religion. I find it interesting for the future of religion generally. The option of coming clean, telling the truth and eating some humble pie.
Younger people, it seems, do not feel it hip being force fed bullshit and lies. The older congregants are dying off and Nones are growing in number. I think it because new generations have something the older ones did not have. Like computers and information.
REVISITING "THE WHOLE TRUTH" - quotes list
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/4ysJK655x2I/m/ugXEgdQWAwAJ
IMO this is how a religious apologist uses fiction and spin to further the cause. Fiction and spin being one of the "freedoms of religion". Like ability to make up whatever. Yet, even the apologist could not escape the following conclusion.
"[...] The only area that I don't think looks good is Paul's lack of crediting his sources, to the point of making it look like he, or Rebazar Tarzs, was the original source. This looks especially bad these days, since copyright law has become much more controlled and publicized. However, it doesn't appear to have been much of a problem while Paul was alive. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/Er0VHRTk_sc/m/NQYn-wQ00FIJ
IMO it not only looks bad, but it looks VERY, VERY, VERY bad! And this would be the other position concerning the truth. So like with social media generally today, there is a war going on between fact and fiction with people taking opposite sides.
Plus, and importantly so, it was a problem when Paul was alive, and working as a writer, pulp fiction author, pseudo journo, advertising copy writer etc.
EG 1968 1968 Paul Twitchell totally rejected by Orion Magazine for Plagiarism
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPT3VpS053V1Jia0E/view?resourcekey=0-p4siqlTQO2a-lkeOFatNTw
SEE PLAGIARISM FOLDER https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdzZTdGxkNjBTR1U?resourcekey=0-MtZhCP-XYt9ZJWGKD_TngQ
There's another report back from 1939/40 of someone who knew Twitchell in Paducah when he started writing, and this 'writer' reports on Twitchell copying things back then, and how unpalatable it was to him. Now, can;t find that ref, but it's somewhere.
Twitchell was ALWAYS PLAGIARIZING AND COPYING OTHERS' WORKS FROM THE DAY HE BOUGHT HIS TYPEWRITER. ;-)
MARMAN, is full of opinionated BS that no one else cared about that. And the BS and MYTHS he made up as he went. That Twitchell had no conscience about this is irrelevant.
DARWIN side bar, there was substantive evidence anecdotal reports by people who were there, that Darwin was at least a 6th initiate (the same as Patti Simpson - Bluth was an 8th) when Twitchell died. Darwin was definitely not a 2nd .... he was acknowledged as a new 5th (leader of NW USA sasang) in the eck world news (or similar) in 1970.
=====================
OK .. here's my record, after collecting research on the matter - cant find original info
Darwin Gross got the 6th Initiation in July 1971 and was being appointed as a leader/HI of the NW
for Eckankar. This is recorded in Eck publication. Darwin had got the 5th Initiation from Paul
Twitchell in London in January 1971. This was around the same time that Patti Simpson got her 5th
Initiation from Paul.
SEE . https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPcGh2Q2N2RFpaMEE/view?resourcekey=0-IXVPOkgjhlTnVp7rd9cMow
=====================
and with regard to what Harold might have said, about anything, well imo, nothing he has said should be thought reliable or grounded.
Of course think differently, but that's their business and choice.
misc info
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPZ2JhTjh0Zi1MZ2c/view?resourcekey=0-p0fBzEG59COJu0aE89lUeQ
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdFd5OVVrc0htb2M/view?resourcekey=0-Bd2zpEeHJp6bdyhjbjnqfA
PAUL TWITCHELL ECKANKAR HISTORY ARCHIVE
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPalFWRzl6YmlmM00
I was a negated 2. initiate.
I had a dream of an earthquake
and woke up and found myself laying beside my bed.
I never fall out of my bed. Neither before neither after this happaning.
Now that was trippy Werner.
If you were asleep dreaming, how do you know you didn't fall out of your bed?
When the dream of the earthquake has ended I
woke up and found myself outside my bed.
Werner. That was very inconsiderate of the aliens that abducted you not to put you back in your bed the way they found you.
Yes , I'm a fan of Dr. David Jacobs
but was never abducted by aliens but by Eckankar
Henosis Sage
2021-08-04 04:13:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by wernertrp
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Etznab
Post by Orion McClure
This is what Sri Harold once announced regarding the future of the ECKANKAR orginazation. Probably the members of ECK have to expect that the successor of Sri Harold will be at most an 8th initiate — at least better than the choice of Sri Darwin at that time, who was only a second initiate when he was chosen as successor of Sri Paul. I would even go so far as to say that there will be no successor at all and ECKANKAR will function as a pure study group without master or leader in the future.
Aside from Paul Twitchell, the founder, nobody afterward was named Mahanta. However, each one in turn did proclaim their self the Mahanta.
So I think it doesn't really matter what Harold said. In fact, Paul Twitchell said something similar that later didn't turn out to be true.
I think it really interesting what is happening with Eckankar dogma. And it seems there are two polar opposite positions. One would be no successor and Eckankar becoming a study group, whatever. The other position being continued fabrications, pseudo history and religion. I find it interesting for the future of religion generally. The option of coming clean, telling the truth and eating some humble pie.
Younger people, it seems, do not feel it hip being force fed bullshit and lies. The older congregants are dying off and Nones are growing in number. I think it because new generations have something the older ones did not have. Like computers and information.
REVISITING "THE WHOLE TRUTH" - quotes list
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/4ysJK655x2I/m/ugXEgdQWAwAJ
IMO this is how a religious apologist uses fiction and spin to further the cause. Fiction and spin being one of the "freedoms of religion". Like ability to make up whatever. Yet, even the apologist could not escape the following conclusion.
"[...] The only area that I don't think looks good is Paul's lack of crediting his sources, to the point of making it look like he, or Rebazar Tarzs, was the original source. This looks especially bad these days, since copyright law has become much more controlled and publicized. However, it doesn't appear to have been much of a problem while Paul was alive. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/Er0VHRTk_sc/m/NQYn-wQ00FIJ
IMO it not only looks bad, but it looks VERY, VERY, VERY bad! And this would be the other position concerning the truth. So like with social media generally today, there is a war going on between fact and fiction with people taking opposite sides.
Plus, and importantly so, it was a problem when Paul was alive, and working as a writer, pulp fiction author, pseudo journo, advertising copy writer etc.
EG 1968 1968 Paul Twitchell totally rejected by Orion Magazine for Plagiarism
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPT3VpS053V1Jia0E/view?resourcekey=0-p4siqlTQO2a-lkeOFatNTw
SEE PLAGIARISM FOLDER https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdzZTdGxkNjBTR1U?resourcekey=0-MtZhCP-XYt9ZJWGKD_TngQ
There's another report back from 1939/40 of someone who knew Twitchell in Paducah when he started writing, and this 'writer' reports on Twitchell copying things back then, and how unpalatable it was to him. Now, can;t find that ref, but it's somewhere.
Twitchell was ALWAYS PLAGIARIZING AND COPYING OTHERS' WORKS FROM THE DAY HE BOUGHT HIS TYPEWRITER. ;-)
MARMAN, is full of opinionated BS that no one else cared about that. And the BS and MYTHS he made up as he went. That Twitchell had no conscience about this is irrelevant.
DARWIN side bar, there was substantive evidence anecdotal reports by people who were there, that Darwin was at least a 6th initiate (the same as Patti Simpson - Bluth was an 8th) when Twitchell died. Darwin was definitely not a 2nd .... he was acknowledged as a new 5th (leader of NW USA sasang) in the eck world news (or similar) in 1970.
=====================
OK .. here's my record, after collecting research on the matter - cant find original info
Darwin Gross got the 6th Initiation in July 1971 and was being appointed as a leader/HI of the NW
for Eckankar. This is recorded in Eck publication. Darwin had got the 5th Initiation from Paul
Twitchell in London in January 1971. This was around the same time that Patti Simpson got her 5th
Initiation from Paul.
SEE . https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPcGh2Q2N2RFpaMEE/view?resourcekey=0-IXVPOkgjhlTnVp7rd9cMow
=====================
and with regard to what Harold might have said, about anything, well imo, nothing he has said should be thought reliable or grounded.
Of course think differently, but that's their business and choice.
misc info
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPZ2JhTjh0Zi1MZ2c/view?resourcekey=0-p0fBzEG59COJu0aE89lUeQ
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdFd5OVVrc0htb2M/view?resourcekey=0-Bd2zpEeHJp6bdyhjbjnqfA
PAUL TWITCHELL ECKANKAR HISTORY ARCHIVE
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPalFWRzl6YmlmM00
I was a negated 2. initiate.
I had a dream of an earthquake
and woke up and found myself laying beside my bed.
I never fall out of my bed. Neither before neither after this happaning.
Now that was trippy Werner.
If you were asleep dreaming, how do you know you didn't fall out of your bed?
When the dream of the earthquake has ended I
woke up and found myself outside my bed.
AHA~!!!

You had an OOBE Werner!

An Out of Bed Experience...
wernertrp
2021-08-04 07:41:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by wernertrp
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Etznab
Post by Orion McClure
This is what Sri Harold once announced regarding the future of the ECKANKAR orginazation. Probably the members of ECK have to expect that the successor of Sri Harold will be at most an 8th initiate — at least better than the choice of Sri Darwin at that time, who was only a second initiate when he was chosen as successor of Sri Paul. I would even go so far as to say that there will be no successor at all and ECKANKAR will function as a pure study group without master or leader in the future.
Aside from Paul Twitchell, the founder, nobody afterward was named Mahanta. However, each one in turn did proclaim their self the Mahanta.
So I think it doesn't really matter what Harold said. In fact, Paul Twitchell said something similar that later didn't turn out to be true.
I think it really interesting what is happening with Eckankar dogma. And it seems there are two polar opposite positions. One would be no successor and Eckankar becoming a study group, whatever. The other position being continued fabrications, pseudo history and religion. I find it interesting for the future of religion generally. The option of coming clean, telling the truth and eating some humble pie.
Younger people, it seems, do not feel it hip being force fed bullshit and lies. The older congregants are dying off and Nones are growing in number. I think it because new generations have something the older ones did not have. Like computers and information.
REVISITING "THE WHOLE TRUTH" - quotes list
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/4ysJK655x2I/m/ugXEgdQWAwAJ
IMO this is how a religious apologist uses fiction and spin to further the cause. Fiction and spin being one of the "freedoms of religion". Like ability to make up whatever. Yet, even the apologist could not escape the following conclusion.
"[...] The only area that I don't think looks good is Paul's lack of crediting his sources, to the point of making it look like he, or Rebazar Tarzs, was the original source. This looks especially bad these days, since copyright law has become much more controlled and publicized. However, it doesn't appear to have been much of a problem while Paul was alive. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/Er0VHRTk_sc/m/NQYn-wQ00FIJ
IMO it not only looks bad, but it looks VERY, VERY, VERY bad! And this would be the other position concerning the truth. So like with social media generally today, there is a war going on between fact and fiction with people taking opposite sides.
Plus, and importantly so, it was a problem when Paul was alive, and working as a writer, pulp fiction author, pseudo journo, advertising copy writer etc.
EG 1968 1968 Paul Twitchell totally rejected by Orion Magazine for Plagiarism
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPT3VpS053V1Jia0E/view?resourcekey=0-p4siqlTQO2a-lkeOFatNTw
SEE PLAGIARISM FOLDER https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdzZTdGxkNjBTR1U?resourcekey=0-MtZhCP-XYt9ZJWGKD_TngQ
There's another report back from 1939/40 of someone who knew Twitchell in Paducah when he started writing, and this 'writer' reports on Twitchell copying things back then, and how unpalatable it was to him. Now, can;t find that ref, but it's somewhere.
Twitchell was ALWAYS PLAGIARIZING AND COPYING OTHERS' WORKS FROM THE DAY HE BOUGHT HIS TYPEWRITER. ;-)
MARMAN, is full of opinionated BS that no one else cared about that. And the BS and MYTHS he made up as he went. That Twitchell had no conscience about this is irrelevant.
DARWIN side bar, there was substantive evidence anecdotal reports by people who were there, that Darwin was at least a 6th initiate (the same as Patti Simpson - Bluth was an 8th) when Twitchell died. Darwin was definitely not a 2nd .... he was acknowledged as a new 5th (leader of NW USA sasang) in the eck world news (or similar) in 1970.
=====================
OK .. here's my record, after collecting research on the matter - cant find original info
Darwin Gross got the 6th Initiation in July 1971 and was being appointed as a leader/HI of the NW
for Eckankar. This is recorded in Eck publication. Darwin had got the 5th Initiation from Paul
Twitchell in London in January 1971. This was around the same time that Patti Simpson got her 5th
Initiation from Paul.
SEE . https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPcGh2Q2N2RFpaMEE/view?resourcekey=0-IXVPOkgjhlTnVp7rd9cMow
=====================
and with regard to what Harold might have said, about anything, well imo, nothing he has said should be thought reliable or grounded.
Of course think differently, but that's their business and choice.
misc info
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPZ2JhTjh0Zi1MZ2c/view?resourcekey=0-p0fBzEG59COJu0aE89lUeQ
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdFd5OVVrc0htb2M/view?resourcekey=0-Bd2zpEeHJp6bdyhjbjnqfA
PAUL TWITCHELL ECKANKAR HISTORY ARCHIVE
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPalFWRzl6YmlmM00
I was a negated 2. initiate.
I had a dream of an earthquake
and woke up and found myself laying beside my bed.
I never fall out of my bed. Neither before neither after this happaning.
Now that was trippy Werner.
If you were asleep dreaming, how do you know you didn't fall out of your bed?
When the dream of the earthquake has ended I
woke up and found myself outside my bed.
AHA~!!!
You had an OOBE Werner!
An Out of Bed Experience...
grin,
that was a (my) modified OOBE
wernertrp
2021-08-05 06:24:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by wernertrp
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Etznab
Post by Orion McClure
This is what Sri Harold once announced regarding the future of the ECKANKAR orginazation. Probably the members of ECK have to expect that the successor of Sri Harold will be at most an 8th initiate — at least better than the choice of Sri Darwin at that time, who was only a second initiate when he was chosen as successor of Sri Paul. I would even go so far as to say that there will be no successor at all and ECKANKAR will function as a pure study group without master or leader in the future.
Aside from Paul Twitchell, the founder, nobody afterward was named Mahanta. However, each one in turn did proclaim their self the Mahanta.
So I think it doesn't really matter what Harold said. In fact, Paul Twitchell said something similar that later didn't turn out to be true.
I think it really interesting what is happening with Eckankar dogma. And it seems there are two polar opposite positions. One would be no successor and Eckankar becoming a study group, whatever. The other position being continued fabrications, pseudo history and religion. I find it interesting for the future of religion generally. The option of coming clean, telling the truth and eating some humble pie.
Younger people, it seems, do not feel it hip being force fed bullshit and lies. The older congregants are dying off and Nones are growing in number. I think it because new generations have something the older ones did not have. Like computers and information.
REVISITING "THE WHOLE TRUTH" - quotes list
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/4ysJK655x2I/m/ugXEgdQWAwAJ
IMO this is how a religious apologist uses fiction and spin to further the cause. Fiction and spin being one of the "freedoms of religion". Like ability to make up whatever. Yet, even the apologist could not escape the following conclusion.
"[...] The only area that I don't think looks good is Paul's lack of crediting his sources, to the point of making it look like he, or Rebazar Tarzs, was the original source. This looks especially bad these days, since copyright law has become much more controlled and publicized. However, it doesn't appear to have been much of a problem while Paul was alive. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/Er0VHRTk_sc/m/NQYn-wQ00FIJ
IMO it not only looks bad, but it looks VERY, VERY, VERY bad! And this would be the other position concerning the truth. So like with social media generally today, there is a war going on between fact and fiction with people taking opposite sides.
Plus, and importantly so, it was a problem when Paul was alive, and working as a writer, pulp fiction author, pseudo journo, advertising copy writer etc.
EG 1968 1968 Paul Twitchell totally rejected by Orion Magazine for Plagiarism
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPT3VpS053V1Jia0E/view?resourcekey=0-p4siqlTQO2a-lkeOFatNTw
SEE PLAGIARISM FOLDER https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdzZTdGxkNjBTR1U?resourcekey=0-MtZhCP-XYt9ZJWGKD_TngQ
There's another report back from 1939/40 of someone who knew Twitchell in Paducah when he started writing, and this 'writer' reports on Twitchell copying things back then, and how unpalatable it was to him. Now, can;t find that ref, but it's somewhere.
Twitchell was ALWAYS PLAGIARIZING AND COPYING OTHERS' WORKS FROM THE DAY HE BOUGHT HIS TYPEWRITER. ;-)
MARMAN, is full of opinionated BS that no one else cared about that. And the BS and MYTHS he made up as he went. That Twitchell had no conscience about this is irrelevant.
DARWIN side bar, there was substantive evidence anecdotal reports by people who were there, that Darwin was at least a 6th initiate (the same as Patti Simpson - Bluth was an 8th) when Twitchell died. Darwin was definitely not a 2nd .... he was acknowledged as a new 5th (leader of NW USA sasang) in the eck world news (or similar) in 1970.
=====================
OK .. here's my record, after collecting research on the matter - cant find original info
Darwin Gross got the 6th Initiation in July 1971 and was being appointed as a leader/HI of the NW
for Eckankar. This is recorded in Eck publication. Darwin had got the 5th Initiation from Paul
Twitchell in London in January 1971. This was around the same time that Patti Simpson got her 5th
Initiation from Paul.
SEE . https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPcGh2Q2N2RFpaMEE/view?resourcekey=0-IXVPOkgjhlTnVp7rd9cMow
=====================
and with regard to what Harold might have said, about anything, well imo, nothing he has said should be thought reliable or grounded.
Of course think differently, but that's their business and choice.
misc info
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPZ2JhTjh0Zi1MZ2c/view?resourcekey=0-p0fBzEG59COJu0aE89lUeQ
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdFd5OVVrc0htb2M/view?resourcekey=0-Bd2zpEeHJp6bdyhjbjnqfA
PAUL TWITCHELL ECKANKAR HISTORY ARCHIVE
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPalFWRzl6YmlmM00
I was a negated 2. initiate.
I had a dream of an earthquake
and woke up and found myself laying beside my bed.
I never fall out of my bed. Neither before neither after this happaning.
Now that was trippy Werner.
If you were asleep dreaming, how do you know you didn't fall out of your bed?
When the dream of the earthquake has ended I
woke up and found myself outside my bed.
AHA~!!!
You had an OOBE Werner!
An Out of Bed Experience...
grin,
that was a (my) modified OOBE
Die neuesten Mahantas haben überhaupt kein Bewußtsein mehr.
Denn alle sind vollkommen verblödet.
Orion McClure
2021-08-10 10:39:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Etznab
Post by Orion McClure
This is what Sri Harold once announced regarding the future of the ECKANKAR orginazation. Probably the members of ECK have to expect that the successor of Sri Harold will be at most an 8th initiate — at least better than the choice of Sri Darwin at that time, who was only a second initiate when he was chosen as successor of Sri Paul. I would even go so far as to say that there will be no successor at all and ECKANKAR will function as a pure study group without master or leader in the future.
Aside from Paul Twitchell, the founder, nobody afterward was named Mahanta. However, each one in turn did proclaim their self the Mahanta.
So I think it doesn't really matter what Harold said. In fact, Paul Twitchell said something similar that later didn't turn out to be true.
I think it really interesting what is happening with Eckankar dogma. And it seems there are two polar opposite positions. One would be no successor and Eckankar becoming a study group, whatever. The other position being continued fabrications, pseudo history and religion. I find it interesting for the future of religion generally. The option of coming clean, telling the truth and eating some humble pie.
Younger people, it seems, do not feel it hip being force fed bullshit and lies. The older congregants are dying off and Nones are growing in number. I think it because new generations have something the older ones did not have. Like computers and information.
REVISITING "THE WHOLE TRUTH" - quotes list
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/4ysJK655x2I/m/ugXEgdQWAwAJ
IMO this is how a religious apologist uses fiction and spin to further the cause. Fiction and spin being one of the "freedoms of religion". Like ability to make up whatever. Yet, even the apologist could not escape the following conclusion.
"[...] The only area that I don't think looks good is Paul's lack of crediting his sources, to the point of making it look like he, or Rebazar Tarzs, was the original source. This looks especially bad these days, since copyright law has become much more controlled and publicized. However, it doesn't appear to have been much of a problem while Paul was alive. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/Er0VHRTk_sc/m/NQYn-wQ00FIJ
IMO it not only looks bad, but it looks VERY, VERY, VERY bad! And this would be the other position concerning the truth. So like with social media generally today, there is a war going on between fact and fiction with people taking opposite sides.
Plus, and importantly so, it was a problem when Paul was alive, and working as a writer, pulp fiction author, pseudo journo, advertising copy writer etc.
EG 1968 1968 Paul Twitchell totally rejected by Orion Magazine for Plagiarism
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPT3VpS053V1Jia0E/view?resourcekey=0-p4siqlTQO2a-lkeOFatNTw
SEE PLAGIARISM FOLDER https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdzZTdGxkNjBTR1U?resourcekey=0-MtZhCP-XYt9ZJWGKD_TngQ
There's another report back from 1939/40 of someone who knew Twitchell in Paducah when he started writing, and this 'writer' reports on Twitchell copying things back then, and how unpalatable it was to him. Now, can;t find that ref, but it's somewhere.
Twitchell was ALWAYS PLAGIARIZING AND COPYING OTHERS' WORKS FROM THE DAY HE BOUGHT HIS TYPEWRITER. ;-)
MARMAN, is full of opinionated BS that no one else cared about that. And the BS and MYTHS he made up as he went. That Twitchell had no conscience about this is irrelevant.
DARWIN side bar, there was substantive evidence anecdotal reports by people who were there, that Darwin was at least a 6th initiate (the same as Patti Simpson - Bluth was an 8th) when Twitchell died. Darwin was definitely not a 2nd .... he was acknowledged as a new 5th (leader of NW USA sasang) in the eck world news (or similar) in 1970.
=====================
OK .. here's my record, after collecting research on the matter - cant find original info
Darwin Gross got the 6th Initiation in July 1971 and was being appointed as a leader/HI of the NW
for Eckankar. This is recorded in Eck publication. Darwin had got the 5th Initiation from Paul
Twitchell in London in January 1971. This was around the same time that Patti Simpson got her 5th
Initiation from Paul.
SEE . https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPcGh2Q2N2RFpaMEE/view?resourcekey=0-IXVPOkgjhlTnVp7rd9cMow
=====================
and with regard to what Harold might have said, about anything, well imo, nothing he has said should be thought reliable or grounded.
Of course think differently, but that's their business and choice.
misc info
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPZ2JhTjh0Zi1MZ2c/view?resourcekey=0-p0fBzEG59COJu0aE89lUeQ
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdFd5OVVrc0htb2M/view?resourcekey=0-Bd2zpEeHJp6bdyhjbjnqfA
PAUL TWITCHELL ECKANKAR HISTORY ARCHIVE
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPalFWRzl6YmlmM00
I was a negated 2. initiate.
I had a dream of an earthquake
and woke up and found myself laying beside my bed.
I never fall out of my bed. Neither before neither after this happaning.
Now that was trippy Werner.
If you were asleep dreaming, how do you know you didn't fall out of your bed?
I got my 2nd initiation twice because I failed to renew my membership in a timely manner and pay the $100 "donation." If you do not pay memebership fees, you'll lose all your initiation levels and you restart from zero.
wernertrp
2021-08-10 16:18:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orion McClure
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Etznab
Post by Orion McClure
This is what Sri Harold once announced regarding the future of the ECKANKAR orginazation. Probably the members of ECK have to expect that the successor of Sri Harold will be at most an 8th initiate — at least better than the choice of Sri Darwin at that time, who was only a second initiate when he was chosen as successor of Sri Paul. I would even go so far as to say that there will be no successor at all and ECKANKAR will function as a pure study group without master or leader in the future.
Aside from Paul Twitchell, the founder, nobody afterward was named Mahanta. However, each one in turn did proclaim their self the Mahanta.
So I think it doesn't really matter what Harold said. In fact, Paul Twitchell said something similar that later didn't turn out to be true.
I think it really interesting what is happening with Eckankar dogma. And it seems there are two polar opposite positions. One would be no successor and Eckankar becoming a study group, whatever. The other position being continued fabrications, pseudo history and religion. I find it interesting for the future of religion generally. The option of coming clean, telling the truth and eating some humble pie.
Younger people, it seems, do not feel it hip being force fed bullshit and lies. The older congregants are dying off and Nones are growing in number. I think it because new generations have something the older ones did not have. Like computers and information.
REVISITING "THE WHOLE TRUTH" - quotes list
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/4ysJK655x2I/m/ugXEgdQWAwAJ
IMO this is how a religious apologist uses fiction and spin to further the cause. Fiction and spin being one of the "freedoms of religion". Like ability to make up whatever. Yet, even the apologist could not escape the following conclusion.
"[...] The only area that I don't think looks good is Paul's lack of crediting his sources, to the point of making it look like he, or Rebazar Tarzs, was the original source. This looks especially bad these days, since copyright law has become much more controlled and publicized. However, it doesn't appear to have been much of a problem while Paul was alive. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/Er0VHRTk_sc/m/NQYn-wQ00FIJ
IMO it not only looks bad, but it looks VERY, VERY, VERY bad! And this would be the other position concerning the truth. So like with social media generally today, there is a war going on between fact and fiction with people taking opposite sides.
Plus, and importantly so, it was a problem when Paul was alive, and working as a writer, pulp fiction author, pseudo journo, advertising copy writer etc.
EG 1968 1968 Paul Twitchell totally rejected by Orion Magazine for Plagiarism
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPT3VpS053V1Jia0E/view?resourcekey=0-p4siqlTQO2a-lkeOFatNTw
SEE PLAGIARISM FOLDER https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdzZTdGxkNjBTR1U?resourcekey=0-MtZhCP-XYt9ZJWGKD_TngQ
There's another report back from 1939/40 of someone who knew Twitchell in Paducah when he started writing, and this 'writer' reports on Twitchell copying things back then, and how unpalatable it was to him. Now, can;t find that ref, but it's somewhere.
Twitchell was ALWAYS PLAGIARIZING AND COPYING OTHERS' WORKS FROM THE DAY HE BOUGHT HIS TYPEWRITER. ;-)
MARMAN, is full of opinionated BS that no one else cared about that. And the BS and MYTHS he made up as he went. That Twitchell had no conscience about this is irrelevant.
DARWIN side bar, there was substantive evidence anecdotal reports by people who were there, that Darwin was at least a 6th initiate (the same as Patti Simpson - Bluth was an 8th) when Twitchell died. Darwin was definitely not a 2nd .... he was acknowledged as a new 5th (leader of NW USA sasang) in the eck world news (or similar) in 1970.
=====================
OK .. here's my record, after collecting research on the matter - cant find original info
Darwin Gross got the 6th Initiation in July 1971 and was being appointed as a leader/HI of the NW
for Eckankar. This is recorded in Eck publication. Darwin had got the 5th Initiation from Paul
Twitchell in London in January 1971. This was around the same time that Patti Simpson got her 5th
Initiation from Paul.
SEE . https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPcGh2Q2N2RFpaMEE/view?resourcekey=0-IXVPOkgjhlTnVp7rd9cMow
=====================
and with regard to what Harold might have said, about anything, well imo, nothing he has said should be thought reliable or grounded.
Of course think differently, but that's their business and choice.
misc info
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPZ2JhTjh0Zi1MZ2c/view?resourcekey=0-p0fBzEG59COJu0aE89lUeQ
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdFd5OVVrc0htb2M/view?resourcekey=0-Bd2zpEeHJp6bdyhjbjnqfA
PAUL TWITCHELL ECKANKAR HISTORY ARCHIVE
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPalFWRzl6YmlmM00
I was a negated 2. initiate.
I had a dream of an earthquake
and woke up and found myself laying beside my bed.
I never fall out of my bed. Neither before neither after this happaning.
Now that was trippy Werner.
If you were asleep dreaming, how do you know you didn't fall out of your bed?
I got my 2nd initiation twice because I failed to renew my membership in a timely manner and pay the $100 "donation." If you do not pay memebership fees, you'll lose all your initiation levels and you restart from zero.
have you forgotten to pay the membership fee or have you done a test what happens when you didn't pay ?
Do you also pay for the cost (in percentage of the Eck members in this Eck-Center) of the Eck Center ?
Orion McClure
2021-08-10 10:45:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Etznab
Post by Orion McClure
This is what Sri Harold once announced regarding the future of the ECKANKAR orginazation. Probably the members of ECK have to expect that the successor of Sri Harold will be at most an 8th initiate — at least better than the choice of Sri Darwin at that time, who was only a second initiate when he was chosen as successor of Sri Paul. I would even go so far as to say that there will be no successor at all and ECKANKAR will function as a pure study group without master or leader in the future.
Aside from Paul Twitchell, the founder, nobody afterward was named Mahanta. However, each one in turn did proclaim their self the Mahanta.
So I think it doesn't really matter what Harold said. In fact, Paul Twitchell said something similar that later didn't turn out to be true.
I think it really interesting what is happening with Eckankar dogma. And it seems there are two polar opposite positions. One would be no successor and Eckankar becoming a study group, whatever. The other position being continued fabrications, pseudo history and religion. I find it interesting for the future of religion generally. The option of coming clean, telling the truth and eating some humble pie.
Younger people, it seems, do not feel it hip being force fed bullshit and lies. The older congregants are dying off and Nones are growing in number. I think it because new generations have something the older ones did not have. Like computers and information.
REVISITING "THE WHOLE TRUTH" - quotes list
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/4ysJK655x2I/m/ugXEgdQWAwAJ
IMO this is how a religious apologist uses fiction and spin to further the cause. Fiction and spin being one of the "freedoms of religion". Like ability to make up whatever. Yet, even the apologist could not escape the following conclusion.
"[...] The only area that I don't think looks good is Paul's lack of crediting his sources, to the point of making it look like he, or Rebazar Tarzs, was the original source. This looks especially bad these days, since copyright law has become much more controlled and publicized. However, it doesn't appear to have been much of a problem while Paul was alive. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/Er0VHRTk_sc/m/NQYn-wQ00FIJ
IMO it not only looks bad, but it looks VERY, VERY, VERY bad! And this would be the other position concerning the truth. So like with social media generally today, there is a war going on between fact and fiction with people taking opposite sides.
Plus, and importantly so, it was a problem when Paul was alive, and working as a writer, pulp fiction author, pseudo journo, advertising copy writer etc.
EG 1968 1968 Paul Twitchell totally rejected by Orion Magazine for Plagiarism
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPT3VpS053V1Jia0E/view?resourcekey=0-p4siqlTQO2a-lkeOFatNTw
SEE PLAGIARISM FOLDER https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdzZTdGxkNjBTR1U?resourcekey=0-MtZhCP-XYt9ZJWGKD_TngQ
There's another report back from 1939/40 of someone who knew Twitchell in Paducah when he started writing, and this 'writer' reports on Twitchell copying things back then, and how unpalatable it was to him. Now, can;t find that ref, but it's somewhere.
Twitchell was ALWAYS PLAGIARIZING AND COPYING OTHERS' WORKS FROM THE DAY HE BOUGHT HIS TYPEWRITER. ;-)
MARMAN, is full of opinionated BS that no one else cared about that. And the BS and MYTHS he made up as he went. That Twitchell had no conscience about this is irrelevant.
DARWIN side bar, there was substantive evidence anecdotal reports by people who were there, that Darwin was at least a 6th initiate (the same as Patti Simpson - Bluth was an 8th) when Twitchell died. Darwin was definitely not a 2nd .... he was acknowledged as a new 5th (leader of NW USA sasang) in the eck world news (or similar) in 1970.
=====================
OK .. here's my record, after collecting research on the matter - cant find original info
Darwin Gross got the 6th Initiation in July 1971 and was being appointed as a leader/HI of the NW
for Eckankar. This is recorded in Eck publication. Darwin had got the 5th Initiation from Paul
Twitchell in London in January 1971. This was around the same time that Patti Simpson got her 5th
Initiation from Paul.
SEE . https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPcGh2Q2N2RFpaMEE/view?resourcekey=0-IXVPOkgjhlTnVp7rd9cMow
=====================
and with regard to what Harold might have said, about anything, well imo, nothing he has said should be thought reliable or grounded.
Of course think differently, but that's their business and choice.
misc info
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPZ2JhTjh0Zi1MZ2c/view?resourcekey=0-p0fBzEG59COJu0aE89lUeQ
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdFd5OVVrc0htb2M/view?resourcekey=0-Bd2zpEeHJp6bdyhjbjnqfA
This is a lot of insightful information I didn't previously know. Thanks a lot!
Henosis Sage
2021-08-10 15:17:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orion McClure
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Etznab
Post by Orion McClure
This is what Sri Harold once announced regarding the future of the ECKANKAR orginazation. Probably the members of ECK have to expect that the successor of Sri Harold will be at most an 8th initiate — at least better than the choice of Sri Darwin at that time, who was only a second initiate when he was chosen as successor of Sri Paul. I would even go so far as to say that there will be no successor at all and ECKANKAR will function as a pure study group without master or leader in the future.
Aside from Paul Twitchell, the founder, nobody afterward was named Mahanta. However, each one in turn did proclaim their self the Mahanta.
So I think it doesn't really matter what Harold said. In fact, Paul Twitchell said something similar that later didn't turn out to be true.
I think it really interesting what is happening with Eckankar dogma. And it seems there are two polar opposite positions. One would be no successor and Eckankar becoming a study group, whatever. The other position being continued fabrications, pseudo history and religion. I find it interesting for the future of religion generally. The option of coming clean, telling the truth and eating some humble pie.
Younger people, it seems, do not feel it hip being force fed bullshit and lies. The older congregants are dying off and Nones are growing in number. I think it because new generations have something the older ones did not have. Like computers and information.
REVISITING "THE WHOLE TRUTH" - quotes list
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/4ysJK655x2I/m/ugXEgdQWAwAJ
IMO this is how a religious apologist uses fiction and spin to further the cause. Fiction and spin being one of the "freedoms of religion". Like ability to make up whatever. Yet, even the apologist could not escape the following conclusion.
"[...] The only area that I don't think looks good is Paul's lack of crediting his sources, to the point of making it look like he, or Rebazar Tarzs, was the original source. This looks especially bad these days, since copyright law has become much more controlled and publicized. However, it doesn't appear to have been much of a problem while Paul was alive. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/Er0VHRTk_sc/m/NQYn-wQ00FIJ
IMO it not only looks bad, but it looks VERY, VERY, VERY bad! And this would be the other position concerning the truth. So like with social media generally today, there is a war going on between fact and fiction with people taking opposite sides.
Plus, and importantly so, it was a problem when Paul was alive, and working as a writer, pulp fiction author, pseudo journo, advertising copy writer etc.
EG 1968 1968 Paul Twitchell totally rejected by Orion Magazine for Plagiarism
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPT3VpS053V1Jia0E/view?resourcekey=0-p4siqlTQO2a-lkeOFatNTw
SEE PLAGIARISM FOLDER https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdzZTdGxkNjBTR1U?resourcekey=0-MtZhCP-XYt9ZJWGKD_TngQ
There's another report back from 1939/40 of someone who knew Twitchell in Paducah when he started writing, and this 'writer' reports on Twitchell copying things back then, and how unpalatable it was to him. Now, can;t find that ref, but it's somewhere.
Twitchell was ALWAYS PLAGIARIZING AND COPYING OTHERS' WORKS FROM THE DAY HE BOUGHT HIS TYPEWRITER. ;-)
MARMAN, is full of opinionated BS that no one else cared about that. And the BS and MYTHS he made up as he went. That Twitchell had no conscience about this is irrelevant.
DARWIN side bar, there was substantive evidence anecdotal reports by people who were there, that Darwin was at least a 6th initiate (the same as Patti Simpson - Bluth was an 8th) when Twitchell died. Darwin was definitely not a 2nd .... he was acknowledged as a new 5th (leader of NW USA sasang) in the eck world news (or similar) in 1970.
=====================
OK .. here's my record, after collecting research on the matter - cant find original info
Darwin Gross got the 6th Initiation in July 1971 and was being appointed as a leader/HI of the NW
for Eckankar. This is recorded in Eck publication. Darwin had got the 5th Initiation from Paul
Twitchell in London in January 1971. This was around the same time that Patti Simpson got her 5th
Initiation from Paul.
SEE . https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPcGh2Q2N2RFpaMEE/view?resourcekey=0-IXVPOkgjhlTnVp7rd9cMow
=====================
and with regard to what Harold might have said, about anything, well imo, nothing he has said should be thought reliable or grounded.
Of course think differently, but that's their business and choice.
misc info
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPZ2JhTjh0Zi1MZ2c/view?resourcekey=0-p0fBzEG59COJu0aE89lUeQ
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdFd5OVVrc0htb2M/view?resourcekey=0-Bd2zpEeHJp6bdyhjbjnqfA
This is a lot of insightful information I didn't previously know. Thanks a lot!
Welcome. It's extensively not known about by most people. :-)

Eckankar (and therefore many eckists trying to do the *right thing* ) treated genuine factual history as if was an STD
Etznab
2021-08-11 17:03:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orion McClure
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Etznab
Post by Orion McClure
This is what Sri Harold once announced regarding the future of the ECKANKAR orginazation. Probably the members of ECK have to expect that the successor of Sri Harold will be at most an 8th initiate — at least better than the choice of Sri Darwin at that time, who was only a second initiate when he was chosen as successor of Sri Paul. I would even go so far as to say that there will be no successor at all and ECKANKAR will function as a pure study group without master or leader in the future.
Aside from Paul Twitchell, the founder, nobody afterward was named Mahanta. However, each one in turn did proclaim their self the Mahanta.
So I think it doesn't really matter what Harold said. In fact, Paul Twitchell said something similar that later didn't turn out to be true.
I think it really interesting what is happening with Eckankar dogma. And it seems there are two polar opposite positions. One would be no successor and Eckankar becoming a study group, whatever. The other position being continued fabrications, pseudo history and religion. I find it interesting for the future of religion generally. The option of coming clean, telling the truth and eating some humble pie.
Younger people, it seems, do not feel it hip being force fed bullshit and lies. The older congregants are dying off and Nones are growing in number. I think it because new generations have something the older ones did not have. Like computers and information.
REVISITING "THE WHOLE TRUTH" - quotes list
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/4ysJK655x2I/m/ugXEgdQWAwAJ
IMO this is how a religious apologist uses fiction and spin to further the cause. Fiction and spin being one of the "freedoms of religion". Like ability to make up whatever. Yet, even the apologist could not escape the following conclusion.
"[...] The only area that I don't think looks good is Paul's lack of crediting his sources, to the point of making it look like he, or Rebazar Tarzs, was the original source. This looks especially bad these days, since copyright law has become much more controlled and publicized. However, it doesn't appear to have been much of a problem while Paul was alive. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/Er0VHRTk_sc/m/NQYn-wQ00FIJ
IMO it not only looks bad, but it looks VERY, VERY, VERY bad! And this would be the other position concerning the truth. So like with social media generally today, there is a war going on between fact and fiction with people taking opposite sides.
Plus, and importantly so, it was a problem when Paul was alive, and working as a writer, pulp fiction author, pseudo journo, advertising copy writer etc.
EG 1968 1968 Paul Twitchell totally rejected by Orion Magazine for Plagiarism
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPT3VpS053V1Jia0E/view?resourcekey=0-p4siqlTQO2a-lkeOFatNTw
SEE PLAGIARISM FOLDER https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdzZTdGxkNjBTR1U?resourcekey=0-MtZhCP-XYt9ZJWGKD_TngQ
There's another report back from 1939/40 of someone who knew Twitchell in Paducah when he started writing, and this 'writer' reports on Twitchell copying things back then, and how unpalatable it was to him. Now, can;t find that ref, but it's somewhere.
Twitchell was ALWAYS PLAGIARIZING AND COPYING OTHERS' WORKS FROM THE DAY HE BOUGHT HIS TYPEWRITER. ;-)
MARMAN, is full of opinionated BS that no one else cared about that. And the BS and MYTHS he made up as he went. That Twitchell had no conscience about this is irrelevant.
DARWIN side bar, there was substantive evidence anecdotal reports by people who were there, that Darwin was at least a 6th initiate (the same as Patti Simpson - Bluth was an 8th) when Twitchell died. Darwin was definitely not a 2nd .... he was acknowledged as a new 5th (leader of NW USA sasang) in the eck world news (or similar) in 1970.
=====================
OK .. here's my record, after collecting research on the matter - cant find original info
Darwin Gross got the 6th Initiation in July 1971 and was being appointed as a leader/HI of the NW
for Eckankar. This is recorded in Eck publication. Darwin had got the 5th Initiation from Paul
Twitchell in London in January 1971. This was around the same time that Patti Simpson got her 5th
Initiation from Paul.
SEE . https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPcGh2Q2N2RFpaMEE/view?resourcekey=0-IXVPOkgjhlTnVp7rd9cMow
=====================
and with regard to what Harold might have said, about anything, well imo, nothing he has said should be thought reliable or grounded.
Of course think differently, but that's their business and choice.
misc info
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPZ2JhTjh0Zi1MZ2c/view?resourcekey=0-p0fBzEG59COJu0aE89lUeQ
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdFd5OVVrc0htb2M/view?resourcekey=0-Bd2zpEeHJp6bdyhjbjnqfA
This is a lot of insightful information I didn't previously know. Thanks a lot!
Hey Orion. This group doesn't generally get a lot of new people so I'm naturally curious about a couple things. Are you an active member of Eckankar? How many years have you been in Eckankar? Also, most importantly, What brought you around to this newsgroup? Have you known about it before? or just discovered it recently?

In Eckankar, when there are not a lot of new people, people ask those that show up: "What brought you to Eckankar?" So in a similar kind of way I'm asking: "What brought you to a.r.e.?"
wernertrp
2021-08-12 09:02:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Etznab
Post by Orion McClure
Post by Henosis Sage
Post by Etznab
Post by Orion McClure
This is what Sri Harold once announced regarding the future of the ECKANKAR orginazation. Probably the members of ECK have to expect that the successor of Sri Harold will be at most an 8th initiate — at least better than the choice of Sri Darwin at that time, who was only a second initiate when he was chosen as successor of Sri Paul. I would even go so far as to say that there will be no successor at all and ECKANKAR will function as a pure study group without master or leader in the future.
Aside from Paul Twitchell, the founder, nobody afterward was named Mahanta. However, each one in turn did proclaim their self the Mahanta.
So I think it doesn't really matter what Harold said. In fact, Paul Twitchell said something similar that later didn't turn out to be true.
I think it really interesting what is happening with Eckankar dogma. And it seems there are two polar opposite positions. One would be no successor and Eckankar becoming a study group, whatever. The other position being continued fabrications, pseudo history and religion. I find it interesting for the future of religion generally. The option of coming clean, telling the truth and eating some humble pie.
Younger people, it seems, do not feel it hip being force fed bullshit and lies. The older congregants are dying off and Nones are growing in number. I think it because new generations have something the older ones did not have. Like computers and information.
REVISITING "THE WHOLE TRUTH" - quotes list
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/4ysJK655x2I/m/ugXEgdQWAwAJ
IMO this is how a religious apologist uses fiction and spin to further the cause. Fiction and spin being one of the "freedoms of religion". Like ability to make up whatever. Yet, even the apologist could not escape the following conclusion.
"[...] The only area that I don't think looks good is Paul's lack of crediting his sources, to the point of making it look like he, or Rebazar Tarzs, was the original source. This looks especially bad these days, since copyright law has become much more controlled and publicized. However, it doesn't appear to have been much of a problem while Paul was alive. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/Er0VHRTk_sc/m/NQYn-wQ00FIJ
IMO it not only looks bad, but it looks VERY, VERY, VERY bad! And this would be the other position concerning the truth. So like with social media generally today, there is a war going on between fact and fiction with people taking opposite sides.
Plus, and importantly so, it was a problem when Paul was alive, and working as a writer, pulp fiction author, pseudo journo, advertising copy writer etc.
EG 1968 1968 Paul Twitchell totally rejected by Orion Magazine for Plagiarism
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPT3VpS053V1Jia0E/view?resourcekey=0-p4siqlTQO2a-lkeOFatNTw
SEE PLAGIARISM FOLDER https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdzZTdGxkNjBTR1U?resourcekey=0-MtZhCP-XYt9ZJWGKD_TngQ
There's another report back from 1939/40 of someone who knew Twitchell in Paducah when he started writing, and this 'writer' reports on Twitchell copying things back then, and how unpalatable it was to him. Now, can;t find that ref, but it's somewhere.
Twitchell was ALWAYS PLAGIARIZING AND COPYING OTHERS' WORKS FROM THE DAY HE BOUGHT HIS TYPEWRITER. ;-)
MARMAN, is full of opinionated BS that no one else cared about that. And the BS and MYTHS he made up as he went. That Twitchell had no conscience about this is irrelevant.
DARWIN side bar, there was substantive evidence anecdotal reports by people who were there, that Darwin was at least a 6th initiate (the same as Patti Simpson - Bluth was an 8th) when Twitchell died. Darwin was definitely not a 2nd .... he was acknowledged as a new 5th (leader of NW USA sasang) in the eck world news (or similar) in 1970.
=====================
OK .. here's my record, after collecting research on the matter - cant find original info
Darwin Gross got the 6th Initiation in July 1971 and was being appointed as a leader/HI of the NW
for Eckankar. This is recorded in Eck publication. Darwin had got the 5th Initiation from Paul
Twitchell in London in January 1971. This was around the same time that Patti Simpson got her 5th
Initiation from Paul.
SEE . https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPcGh2Q2N2RFpaMEE/view?resourcekey=0-IXVPOkgjhlTnVp7rd9cMow
=====================
and with regard to what Harold might have said, about anything, well imo, nothing he has said should be thought reliable or grounded.
Of course think differently, but that's their business and choice.
misc info
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPZ2JhTjh0Zi1MZ2c/view?resourcekey=0-p0fBzEG59COJu0aE89lUeQ
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPdFd5OVVrc0htb2M/view?resourcekey=0-Bd2zpEeHJp6bdyhjbjnqfA
This is a lot of insightful information I didn't previously know. Thanks a lot!
Hey Orion. This group doesn't generally get a lot of new people so I'm naturally curious about a couple things. Are you an active member of Eckankar? How many years have you been in Eckankar? Also, most importantly, What brought you around to this newsgroup? Have you known about it before? or just discovered it recently?
In Eckankar, when there are not a lot of new people, people ask those that show up: "What brought you to Eckankar?" So in a similar kind of way I'm asking: "What brought you to a.r.e.?"
I have also the same question(s).
and please report your first initiation dream.

Es gibt nur Selbst-Initiation.

Advice Team
2021-08-10 00:34:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orion McClure
This is what Sri Harold once announced regarding the future of the ECKANKAR orginazation. Probably the members of ECK have to expect that the successor of Sri Harold will be at most an 8th initiate — at least better than the choice of Sri Darwin at that time, who was only a second initiate when he was chosen as successor of Sri Paul. I would even go so far as to say that there will be no successor at all and ECKANKAR will function as a pure study group without master or leader in the future.
Aside from Paul Twitchell, the founder, nobody afterward was named Mahanta. However, each one in turn did proclaim their self the Mahanta.
So I think it doesn't really matter what Harold said. In fact, Paul Twitchell said something similar that later didn't turn out to be true.
I think it really interesting what is happening with Eckankar dogma. And it seems there are two polar opposite positions. One would be no successor and Eckankar becoming a study group, whatever. The other position being continued fabrications, pseudo history and religion. I find it interesting for the future of religion generally. The option of coming clean, telling the truth and eating some humble pie.
Younger people, it seems, do not feel it hip being force fed bullshit and lies. The older congregants are dying off and Nones are growing in number. I think it because new generations have something the older ones did not have. Like computers and information.
We partly agree with Orion. Eckankar will be just a study group like Scientology. It is already in effect a study group, with no functioning 'master'. Klemp, by the way, is disenchanted wiht the idea of being a master to a bunch of self-regarding characters (of which, of course, as he thinks that, and in any event, he is one).

But there's a kicker. Eckankar will be a study group ruled entirely by the effective current director, the departed Paul Twitchell. A word of caution. Twitchell is not at all like the person he was to 1971. He is much more ruthless, unkind, cruel and does not give a damn about personal suffering. You have been warned!
Loading...