What do Kinpa and Atzumai have in common?

[Etznab]

I never suggested they were the same person.

Here is a repost about something I wrote to Kinpa. Check Kinpa's responses on this link and see if you can spot any similarities. I only see one similarity. An struggle to rationally discuss the true scope of plagiarism. If discuss it at all.

A.R.E. Repost:

Here is your chance to explain the sheer volume of appropriated texts credited to Rebazar Tarzs. I ask you again. Was that Rebazar Tarzs? All of the copied and plagiarized words? Was that Rebazar Tarzs, or Paul Twitchell? In the past you said it was Paul Twitchell and this is what I also have suggested. And then I specifically asked if "that" Rebazar Tarzs was real?

It looks to me like you have a hard time accepting the truth when it is what you don't like to hear. You called Sean a rapist and a drunk, etc., etc. And when an FBI report was filed against you as a result YOU denied it. When you started talking about poop accidents and leveled them at Sean, myself and my friends we also told you the truth and you denied that. When you told me I did not have a current Eckankar membership and I corrected you - adding that I also spoke with someone at ESC - you denied that as well.

Looks to me like Kinpa can't handle the truth.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/duwFzx2V278/uRKf4VvsAwAJ

[Henosis Sage]

Post by Etznab
I never suggested they were the same person.
Here is a repost about something I wrote to Kinpa. Check Kinpa's responses on this link and see if you can spot any similarities. I only see one similarity. An struggle to rationally discuss the true scope of plagiarism. If discuss it at all.
Here is your chance to explain the sheer volume of appropriated texts credited to Rebazar Tarzs. I ask you again. Was that Rebazar Tarzs? All of the copied and plagiarized words? Was that Rebazar Tarzs, or Paul Twitchell? In the past you said it was Paul Twitchell and this is what I also have suggested. And then I specifically asked if "that" Rebazar Tarzs was real?
It looks to me like you have a hard time accepting the truth when it is what you don't like to hear. You called Sean a rapist and a drunk, etc., etc. And when an FBI report was filed against you as a result YOU denied it. When you started talking about poop accidents and leveled them at Sean, myself and my friends we also told you the truth and you denied that. When you told me I did not have a current Eckankar membership and I corrected you - adding that I also spoke with someone at ESC - you denied that as well.
Looks to me like Kinpa can't handle the truth.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/duwFzx2V278/uRKf4VvsAwAJ

Is it the attitude or the state of consciousness or ....? Doesn't really matter! ;-)

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by Henosis Sage

Post by Etznab
I never suggested they were the same person.
Here is a repost about something I wrote to Kinpa. Check Kinpa's responses on this link and see if you can spot any similarities. I only see one similarity. An struggle to rationally discuss the true scope of plagiarism. If discuss it at all.
Here is your chance to explain the sheer volume of appropriated texts credited to Rebazar Tarzs. I ask you again. Was that Rebazar Tarzs? All of the copied and plagiarized words? Was that Rebazar Tarzs, or Paul Twitchell? In the past you said it was Paul Twitchell and this is what I also have suggested. And then I specifically asked if "that" Rebazar Tarzs was real?
It looks to me like you have a hard time accepting the truth when it is what you don't like to hear. You called Sean a rapist and a drunk, etc., etc. And when an FBI report was filed against you as a result YOU denied it. When you started talking about poop accidents and leveled them at Sean, myself and my friends we also told you the truth and you denied that. When you told me I did not have a current Eckankar membership and I corrected you - adding that I also spoke with someone at ESC - you denied that as well.
Looks to me like Kinpa can't handle the truth.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/duwFzx2V278/uRKf4VvsAwAJ

Is it the attitude or the state of consciousness or ....? Doesn't really matter! ;-)

I'm curious. Why do you have current ECKANKAR membership?

[Etznab]

Maybe do a spiritual exercise and ask the master.

How's that sound to you, Rob?

[Henosis Sage]

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Henosis Sage

Post by Etznab
I never suggested they were the same person.
Here is a repost about something I wrote to Kinpa. Check Kinpa's responses on this link and see if you can spot any similarities. I only see one similarity. An struggle to rationally discuss the true scope of plagiarism. If discuss it at all.
Here is your chance to explain the sheer volume of appropriated texts credited to Rebazar Tarzs. I ask you again. Was that Rebazar Tarzs? All of the copied and plagiarized words? Was that Rebazar Tarzs, or Paul Twitchell? In the past you said it was Paul Twitchell and this is what I also have suggested. And then I specifically asked if "that" Rebazar Tarzs was real?
It looks to me like you have a hard time accepting the truth when it is what you don't like to hear. You called Sean a rapist and a drunk, etc., etc. And when an FBI report was filed against you as a result YOU denied it. When you started talking about poop accidents and leveled them at Sean, myself and my friends we also told you the truth and you denied that. When you told me I did not have a current Eckankar membership and I corrected you - adding that I also spoke with someone at ESC - you denied that as well.
Looks to me like Kinpa can't handle the truth.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/duwFzx2V278/uRKf4VvsAwAJ

Is it the attitude or the state of consciousness or ....? Doesn't really matter! ;-)

I'm curious. Why do you have current ECKANKAR membership?

I have a much better question Rob.

Why do you have current ECKANKAR membership? I'm really curious!

[Kinpa]

Post by Henosis Sage

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Henosis Sage

Post by Etznab
I never suggested they were the same person.
Here is a repost about something I wrote to Kinpa. Check Kinpa's responses on this link and see if you can spot any similarities. I only see one similarity. An struggle to rationally discuss the true scope of plagiarism. If discuss it at all.
Here is your chance to explain the sheer volume of appropriated texts credited to Rebazar Tarzs. I ask you again. Was that Rebazar Tarzs? All of the copied and plagiarized words? Was that Rebazar Tarzs, or Paul Twitchell? In the past you said it was Paul Twitchell and this is what I also have suggested. And then I specifically asked if "that" Rebazar Tarzs was real?
It looks to me like you have a hard time accepting the truth when it is what you don't like to hear. You called Sean a rapist and a drunk, etc., etc. And when an FBI report was filed against you as a result YOU denied it. When you started talking about poop accidents and leveled them at Sean, myself and my friends we also told you the truth and you denied that. When you told me I did not have a current Eckankar membership and I corrected you - adding that I also spoke with someone at ESC - you denied that as well.
Looks to me like Kinpa can't handle the truth.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/duwFzx2V278/uRKf4VvsAwAJ

Is it the attitude or the state of consciousness or ....? Doesn't really matter! ;-)

I'm curious. Why do you have current ECKANKAR membership?

I have a much better question Rob.
Why do you have current ECKANKAR membership? I'm really curious!

Why not ask me? I btw am NOT Atzumai either and never have been. Why are you two STILL so enraptured and obsessed with me that my name continues to pop up here so often??? Tell you what, ask YOURSELVES that question first of all! Sound good? I'm thinking it does. Only YOU can change that from continuing to happen. No need to answer me on it either. I'm far too busy having my own pursuits to care much either way.

Have a great day!

[Henosis Sage]

Post by Kinpa

Post by Henosis Sage

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Henosis Sage

Post by Etznab
I never suggested they were the same person.
Here is a repost about something I wrote to Kinpa. Check Kinpa's responses on this link and see if you can spot any similarities. I only see one similarity. An struggle to rationally discuss the true scope of plagiarism. If discuss it at all.
Here is your chance to explain the sheer volume of appropriated texts credited to Rebazar Tarzs. I ask you again. Was that Rebazar Tarzs? All of the copied and plagiarized words? Was that Rebazar Tarzs, or Paul Twitchell? In the past you said it was Paul Twitchell and this is what I also have suggested. And then I specifically asked if "that" Rebazar Tarzs was real?
It looks to me like you have a hard time accepting the truth when it is what you don't like to hear. You called Sean a rapist and a drunk, etc., etc. And when an FBI report was filed against you as a result YOU denied it. When you started talking about poop accidents and leveled them at Sean, myself and my friends we also told you the truth and you denied that. When you told me I did not have a current Eckankar membership and I corrected you - adding that I also spoke with someone at ESC - you denied that as well.
Looks to me like Kinpa can't handle the truth.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/duwFzx2V278/uRKf4VvsAwAJ

Is it the attitude or the state of consciousness or ....? Doesn't really matter! ;-)

I'm curious. Why do you have current ECKANKAR membership?

I have a much better question Rob.
Why do you have current ECKANKAR membership? I'm really curious!

Why not ask me? I btw am NOT Atzumai either and never have been. Why are you two STILL so enraptured and obsessed with me that my name continues to pop up here so often??? Tell you what, ask YOURSELVES that question first of all! Sound good? I'm thinking it does. Only YOU can change that from continuing to happen. No need to answer me on it either. I'm far too busy having my own pursuits to care much either way.
Have a great day!

What a coincidence! He must be a Psychic. ;-)

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by Kinpa

Post by Henosis Sage

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Henosis Sage

Post by Etznab
I never suggested they were the same person.
Here is a repost about something I wrote to Kinpa. Check Kinpa's responses on this link and see if you can spot any similarities. I only see one similarity. An struggle to rationally discuss the true scope of plagiarism. If discuss it at all.
Here is your chance to explain the sheer volume of appropriated texts credited to Rebazar Tarzs. I ask you again. Was that Rebazar Tarzs? All of the copied and plagiarized words? Was that Rebazar Tarzs, or Paul Twitchell? In the past you said it was Paul Twitchell and this is what I also have suggested. And then I specifically asked if "that" Rebazar Tarzs was real?
It looks to me like you have a hard time accepting the truth when it is what you don't like to hear. You called Sean a rapist and a drunk, etc., etc. And when an FBI report was filed against you as a result YOU denied it. When you started talking about poop accidents and leveled them at Sean, myself and my friends we also told you the truth and you denied that. When you told me I did not have a current Eckankar membership and I corrected you - adding that I also spoke with someone at ESC - you denied that as well.
Looks to me like Kinpa can't handle the truth.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/duwFzx2V278/uRKf4VvsAwAJ

Is it the attitude or the state of consciousness or ....? Doesn't really matter! ;-)

I'm curious. Why do you have current ECKANKAR membership?

I have a much better question Rob.
Why do you have current ECKANKAR membership? I'm really curious!

Why not ask me? I btw am NOT Atzumai either and never have been. Why are you two STILL so enraptured and obsessed with me that my name continues to pop up here so often??? Tell you what, ask YOURSELVES that question first of all! Sound good? I'm thinking it does. Only YOU can change that from continuing to happen. No need to answer me on it either. I'm far too busy having my own pursuits to care much either way.
Have a great day!

It always puzzles me to see such puerile preoccupation with the personalities that post once in a blue moon on this board. How does insulting Kinpa or anybody else advance the goal of spiritual understanding, or is ignorance some sort of virtue?

[fife]

"Azutmai." Wow. You haven't had this much fun in years, huh? ;-) You'll be back to troll the board? Pfft of course you will.

[fife]

Ha ha ha ha. Man, if you think I'm doing "challenges" at my age you must be nuts. You know this shtick of yours was worn out years before "Azutmai" ever started posting. But w.t.f.. You might as well make use of what's left of yourself when it's all you've got. Eh?

As far as teaching and learning, you can teach the universe because it doesn't belong to anyone but everyone's equipped with the same one. It's universal. But as far as your way through it, you have to teach yourself. A bit of this here, a bit of that, there. More of that over there. Less. Less is more. More is less. I know you're just trolling but I'm sure you haven't wasted all your time. Your whole life. Like I said before, you're not stupid.

[Etznab]

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Kinpa

Post by Henosis Sage

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Henosis Sage

Post by Etznab
I never suggested they were the same person.
Here is a repost about something I wrote to Kinpa. Check Kinpa's responses on this link and see if you can spot any similarities. I only see one similarity. An struggle to rationally discuss the true scope of plagiarism. If discuss it at all.
Here is your chance to explain the sheer volume of appropriated texts credited to Rebazar Tarzs. I ask you again. Was that Rebazar Tarzs? All of the copied and plagiarized words? Was that Rebazar Tarzs, or Paul Twitchell? In the past you said it was Paul Twitchell and this is what I also have suggested. And then I specifically asked if "that" Rebazar Tarzs was real?
It looks to me like you have a hard time accepting the truth when it is what you don't like to hear. You called Sean a rapist and a drunk, etc., etc. And when an FBI report was filed against you as a result YOU denied it. When you started talking about poop accidents and leveled them at Sean, myself and my friends we also told you the truth and you denied that. When you told me I did not have a current Eckankar membership and I corrected you - adding that I also spoke with someone at ESC - you denied that as well.
Looks to me like Kinpa can't handle the truth.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/duwFzx2V278/uRKf4VvsAwAJ

Is it the attitude or the state of consciousness or ....? Doesn't really matter! ;-)

I'm curious. Why do you have current ECKANKAR membership?

I have a much better question Rob.
Why do you have current ECKANKAR membership? I'm really curious!

Why not ask me? I btw am NOT Atzumai either and never have been. Why are you two STILL so enraptured and obsessed with me that my name continues to pop up here so often??? Tell you what, ask YOURSELVES that question first of all! Sound good? I'm thinking it does. Only YOU can change that from continuing to happen. No need to answer me on it either. I'm far too busy having my own pursuits to care much either way.
Have a great day!

It always puzzles me to see such puerile preoccupation with the personalities that post once in a blue moon on this board. How does insulting Kinpa or anybody else advance the goal of spiritual understanding, or is ignorance some sort of virtue?

I gave examples, Rob. It is what it is. Not my doing. Kinpa spread lies and denied the truth. He has not apologized for it to date that I can recall. So that makes him an active liar whether he posts here, or not.

And what are you doing defending people who spread lies? Rob? I remember your support for Kinpa when he was actively lying. Is he your buddy? You and Kinpa and Atzumai think you have authority to decide who is an authentic Eckist? Who appointed you the big bad wolves?

[Etznab]

Post by Kinpa

Post by Henosis Sage

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Henosis Sage

Post by Etznab
I never suggested they were the same person.
Here is a repost about something I wrote to Kinpa. Check Kinpa's responses on this link and see if you can spot any similarities. I only see one similarity. An struggle to rationally discuss the true scope of plagiarism. If discuss it at all.
Here is your chance to explain the sheer volume of appropriated texts credited to Rebazar Tarzs. I ask you again. Was that Rebazar Tarzs? All of the copied and plagiarized words? Was that Rebazar Tarzs, or Paul Twitchell? In the past you said it was Paul Twitchell and this is what I also have suggested. And then I specifically asked if "that" Rebazar Tarzs was real?
It looks to me like you have a hard time accepting the truth when it is what you don't like to hear. You called Sean a rapist and a drunk, etc., etc. And when an FBI report was filed against you as a result YOU denied it. When you started talking about poop accidents and leveled them at Sean, myself and my friends we also told you the truth and you denied that. When you told me I did not have a current Eckankar membership and I corrected you - adding that I also spoke with someone at ESC - you denied that as well.
Looks to me like Kinpa can't handle the truth.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/duwFzx2V278/uRKf4VvsAwAJ

Is it the attitude or the state of consciousness or ....? Doesn't really matter! ;-)

I'm curious. Why do you have current ECKANKAR membership?

I have a much better question Rob.
Why do you have current ECKANKAR membership? I'm really curious!

Why not ask me? I btw am NOT Atzumai either and never have been. Why are you two STILL so enraptured and obsessed with me that my name continues to pop up here so often??? Tell you what, ask YOURSELVES that question first of all! Sound good? I'm thinking it does. Only YOU can change that from continuing to happen. No need to answer me on it either. I'm far too busy having my own pursuits to care much either way.
Have a great day!

I asked you several times to apologize for your malicious falsehoods. Have you to date apologized for the lies about me that you spread? If so, please post the link.

[Etznab]

Post by Kinpa

Post by Henosis Sage

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Henosis Sage

Post by Etznab
I never suggested they were the same person.
Here is a repost about something I wrote to Kinpa. Check Kinpa's responses on this link and see if you can spot any similarities. I only see one similarity. An struggle to rationally discuss the true scope of plagiarism. If discuss it at all.
Here is your chance to explain the sheer volume of appropriated texts credited to Rebazar Tarzs. I ask you again. Was that Rebazar Tarzs? All of the copied and plagiarized words? Was that Rebazar Tarzs, or Paul Twitchell? In the past you said it was Paul Twitchell and this is what I also have suggested. And then I specifically asked if "that" Rebazar Tarzs was real?
It looks to me like you have a hard time accepting the truth when it is what you don't like to hear. You called Sean a rapist and a drunk, etc., etc. And when an FBI report was filed against you as a result YOU denied it. When you started talking about poop accidents and leveled them at Sean, myself and my friends we also told you the truth and you denied that. When you told me I did not have a current Eckankar membership and I corrected you - adding that I also spoke with someone at ESC - you denied that as well.
Looks to me like Kinpa can't handle the truth.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/duwFzx2V278/uRKf4VvsAwAJ

Is it the attitude or the state of consciousness or ....? Doesn't really matter! ;-)

I'm curious. Why do you have current ECKANKAR membership?

I have a much better question Rob.
Why do you have current ECKANKAR membership? I'm really curious!

Why not ask me? I btw am NOT Atzumai either and never have been. Why are you two STILL so enraptured and obsessed with me that my name continues to pop up here so often??? Tell you what, ask YOURSELVES that question first of all! Sound good? I'm thinking it does. Only YOU can change that from continuing to happen. No need to answer me on it either. I'm far too busy having my own pursuits to care much either way.
Have a great day!

Kinpa writes:

"[...] I btw am NOT Atzumai either and never have been. [...] Have a great day!" - 03/13/19

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/AC9nlkiwQF0/Rz39sSCcAwAJ

Ref# 71480

[s***@gmail.com]

Easy question to answer:
a) The increase in Light and Sound that comes with each ECK initiation.
b) Access to the revamped discourses. These now have workbook sections with new words to chant in some cases.
c) Access to periodicals like the Mystic World.
d) Access to ECK Satsang classes.
e) Performance of my role occasionally of ECK Arahata.
f) Aiding my focus on the goal of spiritual freedom in this very lifetime.

[fife]

a) That's not a question,Rob. It's a list of features.
b) So what?
c) I'm sorry to hear about f). You mean you're not free now? Perhaps you don't know what spiritual freedom is.
d) I don't have anything against you being an eckist, Rob. And if that list of things makes you happy, good for you.

[Henosis Sage]

Post by fife
a) That's not a question,Rob. It's a list of features.
b) So what?
c) I'm sorry to hear about f). You mean you're not free now? Perhaps you don't know what spiritual freedom is.
d) I don't have anything against you being an eckist, Rob. And if that list of things makes you happy, good for you.

Hi, he was answering my question above.

"I have a much better question Rob.

Why do you have current ECKANKAR membership? I'm really curious!"

[fife]

Henosis. Whoops. My bad.

[Henosis Sage]

Post by s***@gmail.com
a) The increase in Light and Sound that comes with each ECK initiation.
b) Access to the revamped discourses. These now have workbook sections with new words to chant in some cases.
c) Access to periodicals like the Mystic World.
d) Access to ECK Satsang classes.
e) Performance of my role occasionally of ECK Arahata.
f) Aiding my focus on the goal of spiritual freedom in this very lifetime.

Thanks for the reply. This might be the first time in over a decade you have
answered a straight question form me with a straight answer. Well done for that.

Those are 6 good reasons to stay. Obviously these things are important to you.
So it follows you are getting what you want/desire/wish out of Eckankar membership.
imho no one has a right to judge that. It's your free choice.
And if you were to look at every single post I have ever made here since 1998
you will not find one instance where I judged other eckists for being in
eckankar - be it positively or negatively.
I do not pick on Eckists for being eckists - period.

I have another question: Do you think every other Eckists stays in Eckankar for
the very same 6 reasons that you do? Or could they be different, even slightly?

That follows on to my 3rd question: Why do you believe you already KNOW why all
the Eckists leave Eckankar have left it over the last 54 years ?

And then 4th, why do you then judge them "as wanting/failing" for doing so?

for example even Patti Simpson left her membership behind in the late 1980s.
She was Paul's "right hand man" for years until he died.

Then 5th I guess you could also think about why it is you judge Etznab so
negatively for remaining an Eckankar member for posting accurate information
here about the extent of the Plagiarisms/copying and the decades of denials
and the decades of obfusgations about it by Eckankar's leadership and HIs?

These questions are not easy to grasp or answer, so take your time.

[Henosis Sage]

Post by s***@gmail.com
a) The increase in Light and Sound that comes with each ECK initiation.
b) Access to the revamped discourses. These now have workbook sections with new words to chant in some cases.
c) Access to periodicals like the Mystic World.
d) Access to ECK Satsang classes.
e) Performance of my role occasionally of ECK Arahata.
f) Aiding my focus on the goal of spiritual freedom in this very lifetime.

PS some info for you and others.

Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 8:50 AM
"Sean, I have copied what I said and added some stuff.
You have my permission to use it." [...]

"If there is one factor that Paul did not live long enough to deal with, it was the
variation in time it took the different chelas to get there and he really did not deal with a
large bureauocracy (sic). I see no way for the master and the CEO to deal with people
who have obviously done their work and accomplished their goal. Most of them leave,
some get really upset and pick a fight and, sadly, throw out the baby with the bath water.
Unfortunately some who stay come to enjoy the power they wield."

From Patti Simpson-Rivinus

Note: "Unfortunately some who stay come to enjoy the power they wield."

Note 2: "I see no way for the master and the CEO to deal with people WHO HAVE
OBVIOUSLY DONE THEIR WORK and accomplished THEIR GOAL. Most of them LEAVE."

It's not easy to reconcile comments like that from Paul Twitchell's #1 favourite,
whom he asked to take over as the Living ECK master before he died of an
Heart attack in 1971. She refused. A smart move imho.

Now there another question arises for Rob. He has regularly emphasised the SEE
and their importance, and he has also suggested many times that people who leave
don't do them properly, and they don't get to see the eck masters on the inner
etc. and so that's why they LEAVE and get sidetracked onto "mental things" like
Plagiarism.

And yet Patti-Simpson left anyway. Hundreds of thousands have left.

Yet Rob and others continue to deny/ignore my repeated "claims" that it was
from using the skills learned via Eckankar and associated matters, by applying
the "inner guidance practices" that I was able to so easily find all that
plagiarisms I found once I started looking for it consciously and made a plan.

I was "directed" to it .. I am not that smart. I was led to develop the inner
and outer skills so I could find it and publish it. That's when the cognitive
dissonance really kicks in strongly with people like Rob .... then comes the
dismissive denials and the put downs.

This DWTM itemised list of Plagiarisms did not write itself.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-M0yAR0UPhPSXlQVUwxbTFyenc

These examples were not discovered by accident.

This was not found because I am a evil bad person.

This was not found because I am so bad at doing the Spiritual exercises of ECK,
in fact the opposite - and some!

Nor did I have no inner talents and lack guidance by "inner masters" - I am not
that brilliant.

Nor because I was so "mentally confused/driven" and not an Eckist, because at
the time I was. :-)

It's a quandary is it not?

I mean if I left Eckankar because I was so useless at the application of the
"teachings/advice" then how could it be that when I was speaking with Patti
Simpson in 2011 that I cut off our email communications once I realised via my
inner guidance alone that she was dying? She did not know, and I know that.

How does one reconcile such matters?

Who are they to "judge" others and find them wanting? :-)

[Henosis Sage]

Post by Henosis Sage

Post by s***@gmail.com
a) The increase in Light and Sound that comes with each ECK initiation.
b) Access to the revamped discourses. These now have workbook sections with new words to chant in some cases.
c) Access to periodicals like the Mystic World.
d) Access to ECK Satsang classes.
e) Performance of my role occasionally of ECK Arahata.
f) Aiding my focus on the goal of spiritual freedom in this very lifetime.

PS some info for you and others.
Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 8:50 AM
"Sean, I have copied what I said and added some stuff.
You have my permission to use it." [...]
"If there is one factor that Paul did not live long enough to deal with, it was the
variation in time it took the different chelas to get there and he really did not deal with a
large bureauocracy (sic). I see no way for the master and the CEO to deal with people
who have obviously done their work and accomplished their goal. Most of them leave,
some get really upset and pick a fight and, sadly, throw out the baby with the bath water.
Unfortunately some who stay come to enjoy the power they wield."
From Patti Simpson-Rivinus
Note: "Unfortunately some who stay come to enjoy the power they wield."
Note 2: "I see no way for the master and the CEO to deal with people WHO HAVE
OBVIOUSLY DONE THEIR WORK and accomplished THEIR GOAL. Most of them LEAVE."
It's not easy to reconcile comments like that from Paul Twitchell's #1 favourite,
whom he asked to take over as the Living ECK master before he died of an
Heart attack in 1971. She refused. A smart move imho.
Now there another question arises for Rob. He has regularly emphasised the SEE
and their importance, and he has also suggested many times that people who leave
don't do them properly, and they don't get to see the eck masters on the inner
etc. and so that's why they LEAVE and get sidetracked onto "mental things" like
Plagiarism.
And yet Patti-Simpson left anyway. Hundreds of thousands have left.
Yet Rob and others continue to deny/ignore my repeated "claims" that it was
from using the skills learned via Eckankar and associated matters, by applying
the "inner guidance practices" that I was able to so easily find all that
plagiarisms I found once I started looking for it consciously and made a plan.
I was "directed" to it .. I am not that smart. I was led to develop the inner
and outer skills so I could find it and publish it. That's when the cognitive
dissonance really kicks in strongly with people like Rob .... then comes the
dismissive denials and the put downs.
This DWTM itemised list of Plagiarisms did not write itself.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-M0yAR0UPhPSXlQVUwxbTFyenc
These examples were not discovered by accident.
This was not found because I am a evil bad person.
This was not found because I am so bad at doing the Spiritual exercises of ECK,
in fact the opposite - and some!
Nor did I have no inner talents and lack guidance by "inner masters" - I am not
that brilliant.
Nor because I was so "mentally confused/driven" and not an Eckist, because at
the time I was. :-)
It's a quandary is it not?
I mean if I left Eckankar because I was so useless at the application of the
"teachings/advice" then how could it be that when I was speaking with Patti
Simpson in 2011 that I cut off our email communications once I realised via my
inner guidance alone that she was dying? She did not know, and I know that.
How does one reconcile such matters?
Who are they to "judge" others and find them wanting? :-)

sorry missed links for patti

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-M0yAR0UPhPNy1YZ2F3VTRNTDA

and

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-M0yAR0UPhPT3pKb1pSakVlSGc

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by Henosis Sage

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Henosis Sage

Post by Etznab
I never suggested they were the same person.
Here is a repost about something I wrote to Kinpa. Check Kinpa's responses on this link and see if you can spot any similarities. I only see one similarity. An struggle to rationally discuss the true scope of plagiarism. If discuss it at all.
Here is your chance to explain the sheer volume of appropriated texts credited to Rebazar Tarzs. I ask you again. Was that Rebazar Tarzs? All of the copied and plagiarized words? Was that Rebazar Tarzs, or Paul Twitchell? In the past you said it was Paul Twitchell and this is what I also have suggested. And then I specifically asked if "that" Rebazar Tarzs was real?
It looks to me like you have a hard time accepting the truth when it is what you don't like to hear. You called Sean a rapist and a drunk, etc., etc. And when an FBI report was filed against you as a result YOU denied it. When you started talking about poop accidents and leveled them at Sean, myself and my friends we also told you the truth and you denied that. When you told me I did not have a current Eckankar membership and I corrected you - adding that I also spoke with someone at ESC - you denied that as well.
Looks to me like Kinpa can't handle the truth.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/duwFzx2V278/uRKf4VvsAwAJ

Is it the attitude or the state of consciousness or ....? Doesn't really matter! ;-)

I'm curious. Why do you have current ECKANKAR membership?

I have a much better question Rob.
Why do you have current ECKANKAR membership? I'm really curious!

Another reason is one of destiny. It's what I came into this lifetime to do.

[Etznab]

This thread illustrated some writings by Kinpa that I stated were lies. Everybody who frequented the board then may have read them. They were posted more than once.

Kinpa himself was present alas well and his responses, or no response at all (like no apology), were noted.

I think that was a good thread to help illustrate who is who in a.r.e.

[fife]

I don't care about Kinpa. How "wiggly" is that?

[Etznab]

That is fine by me. We all have freedom to answer how we want. And hpnest answers are great. Whether everybody agrees with them, or not.

[Etznab]

This thread shows how to get rid of Azutmai and his ilk.

[Kinpa]

Post by fife
I don't care about Kinpa. How "wiggly" is that?

There is no reason that you should.

[Kinpa]

Post by Etznab
This thread illustrated some writings by Kinpa that I stated were lies. Everybody who frequented the board then may have read them. They were posted more than once.
Kinpa himself was present alas well and his responses, or no response at all (like no apology), were noted.
I think that was a good thread to help illustrate who is who in a.r.e.

You mean to say who is "who you claim they are" don't you? You don't actually know. Neither does Sean. I have no apology for you prese no your current Eckankar ID and show us that your membership is current. Hey, one thing you can say is that Eckankar WILL continue taking your donations for as long as you're willing to send them. If you choose to use the membership only to seek out your so called plagiarisms, then it is your loss.

The fact that the methodology actually works is a thing you cannot discover for yourself while engaged in that pursuit. You can claim it doesn't but that is mere belief, opinion. Purely subjective and without value to anyone but yourself, and perhaps those who agree with your opinions.

Plagiarism? No one cares about any that exists. It is time to just get over it. It isn't illegal enough to matter. In fact you people here seem to be the only ones who actually care. Hey go for it. That changes not one thing about the effectiveness of the path however. Obviously the path still affects all of you to a great deal, or you wouldn't spend quite so much time and effort talking about it.

Honestly, I'm surprised that neither you or Sean have moved on with your lives beyond ARE and myself. I'm not sure whether it is patience or obsession. I suppose I ought to be flattered that I had such a tremendous effect on the both of you. But I'm not. I just don't care that much.

C'est la vie.

[Etznab]

Post by Kinpa

Post by Etznab
This thread illustrated some writings by Kinpa that I stated were lies. Everybody who frequented the board then may have read them. They were posted more than once.
Kinpa himself was present alas well and his responses, or no response at all (like no apology), were noted.
I think that was a good thread to help illustrate who is who in a.r.e.

You mean to say who is "who you claim they are" don't you? You don't actually know. Neither does Sean. I have no apology for you prese no your current Eckankar ID and show us that your membership is current. Hey, one thing you can say is that Eckankar WILL continue taking your donations for as long as you're willing to send them. If you choose to use the membership only to seek out your so called plagiarisms, then it is your loss.
The fact that the methodology actually works is a thing you cannot discover for yourself while engaged in that pursuit. You can claim it doesn't but that is mere belief, opinion. Purely subjective and without value to anyone but yourself, and perhaps those who agree with your opinions.
Plagiarism? No one cares about any that exists. It is time to just get over it. It isn't illegal enough to matter. In fact you people here seem to be the only ones who actually care. Hey go for it. That changes not one thing about the effectiveness of the path however. Obviously the path still affects all of you to a great deal, or you wouldn't spend quite so much time and effort talking about it.
Honestly, I'm surprised that neither you or Sean have moved on with your lives beyond ARE and myself. I'm not sure whether it is patience or obsession. I suppose I ought to be flattered that I had such a tremendous effect on the both of you. But I'm not. I just don't care that much.
C'est la vie.

Not even a nice try on your part.

Hey Kinpa. Look in the mirror and tell those lies to yourself. I think you are the only person who believes them. BTW. I will keep calling your lies malicious falsehoods. Especially when they keep amounting to more and more of a case against you.

So maybe you should go away. And stay away. For your own good.

[Kinpa]

Post by Etznab

Post by Kinpa

Post by Etznab
This thread illustrated some writings by Kinpa that I stated were lies. Everybody who frequented the board then may have read them. They were posted more than once.
Kinpa himself was present alas well and his responses, or no response at all (like no apology), were noted.
I think that was a good thread to help illustrate who is who in a.r.e.

You mean to say who is "who you claim they are" don't you? You don't actually know. Neither does Sean. I have no apology for you prese no your current Eckankar ID and show us that your membership is current. Hey, one thing you can say is that Eckankar WILL continue taking your donations for as long as you're willing to send them. If you choose to use the membership only to seek out your so called plagiarisms, then it is your loss.
The fact that the methodology actually works is a thing you cannot discover for yourself while engaged in that pursuit. You can claim it doesn't but that is mere belief, opinion. Purely subjective and without value to anyone but yourself, and perhaps those who agree with your opinions.
Plagiarism? No one cares about any that exists. It is time to just get over it. It isn't illegal enough to matter. In fact you people here seem to be the only ones who actually care. Hey go for it. That changes not one thing about the effectiveness of the path however. Obviously the path still affects all of you to a great deal, or you wouldn't spend quite so much time and effort talking about it.
Honestly, I'm surprised that neither you or Sean have moved on with your lives beyond ARE and myself. I'm not sure whether it is patience or obsession. I suppose I ought to be flattered that I had such a tremendous effect on the both of you. But I'm not. I just don't care that much.
C'est la vie.

Not even a nice try on your part.
Hey Kinpa. Look in the mirror and tell those lies to yourself. I think you are the only person who believes them. BTW. I will keep calling your lies malicious falsehoods. Especially when they keep amounting to more and more of a case against you.
So maybe you should go away. And stay away. For your own good.

LMAO! You alone are malicious, therefore that is what you'd obviously perceive from anything you disagree with. I'm looking in the mirror, but I've told no lies silly one. Don't flatter yourself with that tripe. Case against me? Do tell? There is NO case against me anywhere. In a court of law there could be a "case," but I've broken no laws. Did you mean spiritual laws? If that truly is the case, then I freely submit myself before those in authority over such, not a problem.

I personally think the only case possible is the case of your mental/emotional state concerning me. For those you ought to consider finding a degree of self control. No one cares and no one is going to do anything to me regarding your presumed "charges."It might sound good to you, but there is no body with any ability to give you what you consider to be justice (although what you believe personally would be justice is not necessarily what any court, physical or spiritual would find worthy of rendering unto me) and is inconsequential.

For the record, I shall come here, or stay away as I choose, and you've no option to change that. I suggest you find a way to grow up and deal with it, or don't. It sounds like a personal problem to me. Get that handled.

[Azutmai]

Wow . . . voices from the past . . . and even from one who is supposed to be like me or me like him or however the current interpretation goes. Most people change their minds without cause and very often.

The group I am a part of have found this board to be exceptionally valuable. The most common questions so far have been “Why are they so rude?” and “Why don’t they want to get beyond this mental stuff?”

These . . . and other questions . . . currently take up our time. This board has done more for others to learn the incredibly blind vanity of the mental worlds.

These people spend ALL their time directing, analyzing, defining, comparing . . . and above all . . . looking outside themselves for answers that they themselves need to find. This is a fabulous group of individuals that clearly show how NOT to approach the teachings of Eckankar. Thank you all.

Kinpa . . . thanks for whatever you did in the past. If you shook their tree . . . you have been of service. I have NO idea who you were . . . but evidently . . . we are much alike. In that respect alone . . . I humbly greet you as a friend.

I absolutely love how they demand . . . “Hey . . . gimme an answer. Hey . . . where’s Harold? He needs to explain. Hey Rebezar . . . you haven’t shown yourself to me yet and validated your quotes . . . if they are even from you. Get busy . . . I need answers.”

As I said above . . . they are going about it exactly in the opposite way to lay their own issues to rest. And they absolutely LOVE themselves for doing all of this. Ah blind ego . . . keep up the good work. So absorbed are you with outside data that you have little clue what lies within.

I’ll be back to post a few of the conclusions we have come up with . . . which even now . . . are far beyond anything these five very destructive people have come up with to date.

Enjoy.

[Henosis Sage]

Post by Azutmai
Wow . . . voices from the past . . . and even from one who is supposed to be like me or me like him or however the current interpretation goes. Most people change their minds without cause and very often.
The group I am a part of have found this board to be exceptionally valuable. The most common questions so far have been “Why are they so rude?” and “Why don’t they want to get beyond this mental stuff?”
These . . . and other questions . . . currently take up our time. This board has done more for others to learn the incredibly blind vanity of the mental worlds.
These people spend ALL their time directing, analyzing, defining, comparing . . . and above all . . . looking outside themselves for answers that they themselves need to find. This is a fabulous group of individuals that clearly show how NOT to approach the teachings of Eckankar. Thank you all.
Kinpa . . . thanks for whatever you did in the past. If you shook their tree . . . you have been of service. I have NO idea who you were . . . but evidently . . . we are much alike. In that respect alone . . . I humbly greet you as a friend.
I absolutely love how they demand . . . “Hey . . . gimme an answer. Hey . . . where’s Harold? He needs to explain. Hey Rebezar . . . you haven’t shown yourself to me yet and validated your quotes . . . if they are even from you. Get busy . . . I need answers.”
As I said above . . . they are going about it exactly in the opposite way to lay their own issues to rest. And they absolutely LOVE themselves for doing all of this. Ah blind ego . . . keep up the good work. So absorbed are you with outside data that you have little clue what lies within.
I’ll be back to post a few of the conclusions we have come up with . . . which even now . . . are far beyond anything these five very destructive people have come up with to date.
Enjoy.

ROTFL gosh another coincidence. God is speaking to me today surely!

Her agent is Azutmai - speak thou Azutmai or forever hold thy peace!

Now what did Harold Klemp say in the book? Oh yes "Cease having opinions!"

and This is the teachings of ECK. Then he went on to talk about Gossip.

Very apt reference today from Fife. Must be psychic too?

[Etznab]

Post by Azutmai
Wow . . . voices from the past . . . and even from one who is supposed to be like me or me like him or however the current interpretation goes. Most people change their minds without cause and very often.
The group I am a part of have found this board to be exceptionally valuable. The most common questions so far have been “Why are they so rude?” and “Why don’t they want to get beyond this mental stuff?”
These . . . and other questions . . . currently take up our time. This board has done more for others to learn the incredibly blind vanity of the mental worlds.
These people spend ALL their time directing, analyzing, defining, comparing . . . and above all . . . looking outside themselves for answers that they themselves need to find. This is a fabulous group of individuals that clearly show how NOT to approach the teachings of Eckankar. Thank you all.
Kinpa . . . thanks for whatever you did in the past. If you shook their tree . . . you have been of service. I have NO idea who you were . . . but evidently . . . we are much alike. In that respect alone . . . I humbly greet you as a friend.
I absolutely love how they demand . . . “Hey . . . gimme an answer. Hey . . . where’s Harold? He needs to explain. Hey Rebezar . . . you haven’t shown yourself to me yet and validated your quotes . . . if they are even from you. Get busy . . . I need answers.”
As I said above . . . they are going about it exactly in the opposite way to lay their own issues to rest. And they absolutely LOVE themselves for doing all of this. Ah blind ego . . . keep up the good work. So absorbed are you with outside data that you have little clue what lies within.
I’ll be back to post a few of the conclusions we have come up with . . . which even now . . . are far beyond anything these five very destructive people have come up with to date.
Enjoy.

"Wow . . . voices from the past . . . and even from one who is supposed to be like me or me like him or however the current interpretation goes. Most people change their minds without cause and very often. [... .]"

I'm watching to see how nasty and vile you become when challenged. Because this was a hallmark of the one people here compared you to.

[Etznab]

Post by Azutmai
Wow . . . voices from the past . . . and even from one who is supposed to be like me or me like him or however the current interpretation goes. Most people change their minds without cause and very often.
The group I am a part of have found this board to be exceptionally valuable. The most common questions so far have been “Why are they so rude?” and “Why don’t they want to get beyond this mental stuff?”
These . . . and other questions . . . currently take up our time. This board has done more for others to learn the incredibly blind vanity of the mental worlds.
These people spend ALL their time directing, analyzing, defining, comparing . . . and above all . . . looking outside themselves for answers that they themselves need to find. This is a fabulous group of individuals that clearly show how NOT to approach the teachings of Eckankar. Thank you all.
Kinpa . . . thanks for whatever you did in the past. If you shook their tree . . . you have been of service. I have NO idea who you were . . . but evidently . . . we are much alike. In that respect alone . . . I humbly greet you as a friend.
I absolutely love how they demand . . . “Hey . . . gimme an answer. Hey . . . where’s Harold? He needs to explain. Hey Rebezar . . . you haven’t shown yourself to me yet and validated your quotes . . . if they are even from you. Get busy . . . I need answers.”
As I said above . . . they are going about it exactly in the opposite way to lay their own issues to rest. And they absolutely LOVE themselves for doing all of this. Ah blind ego . . . keep up the good work. So absorbed are you with outside data that you have little clue what lies within.
I’ll be back to post a few of the conclusions we have come up with . . . which even now . . . are far beyond anything these five very destructive people have come up with to date.
Enjoy.

Well. Looking at the first two paragraphs there, even a child could see what is SIMILAR between Kinpa and Atzumai. They both belong to groups of people who - if you believe the posters (Where are those people? Why have none of them made even a peep here?) - stalk a.r.e. and have no problem with using multiple troll-like tactics. There are other similarities too, but this one is glaringly obvious. Why would Atzumai not know about the similarity. Oh yeah. He doesn't know Kinpa.

[fife]

Well. Looking at the first two paragraphs there, even a child could see

Right up your alley, then.

stalk a.r.e.

You wish.

This is ridiculous, obsessive, and paranoid. Three of your favorite preoccupations?

[Henosis Sage]

Post by Etznab
Well. Looking at the first two paragraphs there, even a child could see
Right up your alley, then.
stalk a.r.e.
You wish.
This is ridiculous, obsessive, and paranoid. Three of your favorite preoccupations?

" . . . are far beyond anything these five very destructive people have come up with to date. "

Sweetness and Light in all it's glory. It's true. Some people do come to a.r.e. to take a dump.

That's the history of it. Can't change that, it's simply true.

[Etznab]

Post by Henosis Sage

Post by Etznab
Well. Looking at the first two paragraphs there, even a child could see
Right up your alley, then.
stalk a.r.e.
You wish.
This is ridiculous, obsessive, and paranoid. Three of your favorite preoccupations?

" . . . are far beyond anything these five very destructive people have come up with to date. "
Sweetness and Light in all it's glory. It's true. Some people do come to a.r.e. to take a dump.
That's the history of it. Can't change that, it's simply true.

The writing style and wording content read like an Eckankar clergy somewhat, or a "wolf" searching for "chicken dinners".

[fife]

Wolf? Chicken? Wolf? Chicken? You'd better run for your hen house just in case, then? :-(

[Etznab]

Post by fife
Wolf? Chicken? Wolf? Chicken? You'd better run for your hen house just in case, then? :-(

3. ... act like a clown. ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/PH6FZz_xgUs/zVsARJHcAgAJ

[Etznab]

Post by fife
Wolf? Chicken? Wolf? Chicken? You'd better run for your hen house just in case, then? :-(

In case you didn't understand the words "wolf" and "chicken dinners".

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/HUR2F1bJ6sg/DpKO4FbUBwAJ

[Etznab]

Post by Azutmai
Wow . . . voices from the past . . . and even from one who is supposed to be like me or me like him or however the current interpretation goes. Most people change their minds without cause and very often.
The group I am a part of have found this board to be exceptionally valuable. The most common questions so far have been “Why are they so rude?” and “Why don’t they want to get beyond this mental stuff?”
These . . . and other questions . . . currently take up our time. This board has done more for others to learn the incredibly blind vanity of the mental worlds.
These people spend ALL their time directing, analyzing, defining, comparing . . . and above all . . . looking outside themselves for answers that they themselves need to find. This is a fabulous group of individuals that clearly show how NOT to approach the teachings of Eckankar. Thank you all.
Kinpa . . . thanks for whatever you did in the past. If you shook their tree . . . you have been of service. I have NO idea who you were . . . but evidently . . . we are much alike. In that respect alone . . . I humbly greet you as a friend.
I absolutely love how they demand . . . “Hey . . . gimme an answer. Hey . . . where’s Harold? He needs to explain. Hey Rebezar . . . you haven’t shown yourself to me yet and validated your quotes . . . if they are even from you. Get busy . . . I need answers.”
As I said above . . . they are going about it exactly in the opposite way to lay their own issues to rest. And they absolutely LOVE themselves for doing all of this. Ah blind ego . . . keep up the good work. So absorbed are you with outside data that you have little clue what lies within.
I’ll be back to post a few of the conclusions we have come up with . . . which even now . . . are far beyond anything these five very destructive people have come up with to date.
Enjoy.

Do you include Kinpa?

"[...] The group I am a part of have found this board to be exceptionally valuable. The most common questions so far have been 'Why are they so rude?' and 'Why don’t they want to get beyond this mental stuff?' [... .]"

Azutmai, Do you (and the group you are a part of) also consider Kinpa rude? You don't know what he did in the past, but say he's been of service and you greet him as a friend?

You wrote:

"[...] Kinpa . . . thanks for whatever you did in the past. If you shook their tree . . . you have been of service. I have NO idea who you were . . . but evidently . . . we are much alike. In that respect alone . . . I humbly greet you as a friend. [... .]"

Here is but a fraction of what Kinpa did in the past.

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/B5SftowQzNg/m/w5aecOgTCQAJ

What you wrote makes perfect sense, if you were Kinpa pretending to be Azutmai. Otherwise it doesn't make sense. If Fife were you, then that also makes sense. So my question for you (Kinpa) is: How many pseudo names have you created here; for the record?

Have you created the name Fife?
Have you created the name Azutmai?

[Etznab]

Post by Etznab

Post by Azutmai
Wow . . . voices from the past . . . and even from one who is supposed to be like me or me like him or however the current interpretation goes. Most people change their minds without cause and very often.
The group I am a part of have found this board to be exceptionally valuable. The most common questions so far have been “Why are they so rude?” and “Why don’t they want to get beyond this mental stuff?”
These . . . and other questions . . . currently take up our time. This board has done more for others to learn the incredibly blind vanity of the mental worlds.
These people spend ALL their time directing, analyzing, defining, comparing . . . and above all . . . looking outside themselves for answers that they themselves need to find. This is a fabulous group of individuals that clearly show how NOT to approach the teachings of Eckankar. Thank you all.
Kinpa . . . thanks for whatever you did in the past. If you shook their tree . . . you have been of service. I have NO idea who you were . . . but evidently . . . we are much alike. In that respect alone . . . I humbly greet you as a friend.
I absolutely love how they demand . . . “Hey . . . gimme an answer. Hey . . . where’s Harold? He needs to explain. Hey Rebezar . . . you haven’t shown yourself to me yet and validated your quotes . . . if they are even from you. Get busy . . . I need answers.”
As I said above . . . they are going about it exactly in the opposite way to lay their own issues to rest. And they absolutely LOVE themselves for doing all of this. Ah blind ego . . . keep up the good work. So absorbed are you with outside data that you have little clue what lies within.
I’ll be back to post a few of the conclusions we have come up with . . . which even now . . . are far beyond anything these five very destructive people have come up with to date.
Enjoy.

Do you include Kinpa?
"[...] The group I am a part of have found this board to be exceptionally valuable. The most common questions so far have been 'Why are they so rude?' and 'Why don’t they want to get beyond this mental stuff?' [... .]"
Azutmai, Do you (and the group you are a part of) also consider Kinpa rude? You don't know what he did in the past, but say he's been of service and you greet him as a friend?
"[...] Kinpa . . . thanks for whatever you did in the past. If you shook their tree . . . you have been of service. I have NO idea who you were . . . but evidently . . . we are much alike. In that respect alone . . . I humbly greet you as a friend. [... .]"
Here is but a fraction of what Kinpa did in the past.
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/B5SftowQzNg/m/w5aecOgTCQAJ
What you wrote makes perfect sense, if you were Kinpa pretending to be Azutmai. Otherwise it doesn't make sense. If Fife were you, then that also makes sense. So my question for you (Kinpa) is: How many pseudo names have you created here; for the record?
Have you created the name Fife?
Have you created the name Azutmai?

Waiting for Kinpa, Fife and Azutmai to respond. If they really are the same person, it should be quite comical to watch "them" respond and all have a conversation about this at the same time.

Are you "The Three Stooges"?

https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=stooge

[Kinpa]

Post by Azutmai
Wow . . . voices from the past . . . and even from one who is supposed to be like me or me like him or however the current interpretation goes. Most people change their minds without cause and very often.
The group I am a part of have found this board to be exceptionally valuable. The most common questions so far have been “Why are they so rude?” and “Why don’t they want to get beyond this mental stuff?”
These . . . and other questions . . . currently take up our time. This board has done more for others to learn the incredibly blind vanity of the mental worlds.
These people spend ALL their time directing, analyzing, defining, comparing . . . and above all . . . looking outside themselves for answers that they themselves need to find. This is a fabulous group of individuals that clearly show how NOT to approach the teachings of Eckankar. Thank you all.
Kinpa . . . thanks for whatever you did in the past. If you shook their tree . . . you have been of service. I have NO idea who you were . . . but evidently . . . we are much alike. In that respect alone . . . I humbly greet you as a friend.
I absolutely love how they demand . . . “Hey . . . gimme an answer. Hey . . . where’s Harold? He needs to explain. Hey Rebezar . . . you haven’t shown yourself to me yet and validated your quotes . . . if they are even from you. Get busy . . . I need answers.”
As I said above . . . they are going about it exactly in the opposite way to lay their own issues to rest. And they absolutely LOVE themselves for doing all of this. Ah blind ego . . . keep up the good work. So absorbed are you with outside data that you have little clue what lies within.
I’ll be back to post a few of the conclusions we have come up with . . . which even now . . . are far beyond anything these five very destructive people have come up with to date.
Enjoy.

I'm glad you were able to enjoy the nonsense that's been going on here for numerous years. I got bored and stopped paying attention to the same 2 people who appear to have nothing better to do with themselves than rant here. That is their choice and they obviously deserve it. Far be it from me to interfere.

Glad to know my input here has been of service to anyone. Enjoy it and use it to the best of your ability.

Btw, to any who'd care to know, I am only me, and have always been. Fife is not me under another name, and neither is Atzumai. I'd never invest that much time or energy in saying anything here. This account works plenty well.

[Azutmai]

Hey fife . . . pointing out what you do not like or agree with is your mainstay but WAY too easy. Disputes are cheap and ridicule is even more cheap. Let’s counter Rob’s post with your own 6-facet list of what spiritual freedom is . . . since you are an all-knowing Master of spiritual freedom . . . or at least claim to be. Tell us fife . . . what IS spiritual freedom . . . as far as YOU know it to be . . . from your own personal experience . . . and NOT as the Sufi’s or Buddhists or the Zoroastrians know it to be.

I’ll be back later to check on your itemized list. You constantly alluded to . . . “You don’t know what _________ is”. Now we begin to find out just what YoU hold on some of these issues rather than leave them unaddressed.

As far as Henosis Sage goes . . . he already dropped even lower down in the listing of the Caustic Five due to one of his earlier posts. One thing I love about you guys . . . you are constantly and happily advertise just how little you know . . . thus giving validity to the old saying of “ignorance is bliss.”

I’ll be back later, fife. Make the itemized list good. Always nice to get someone such as you to put your money where your mouth is.

[Tisra Til]

". he already dropped even lower down in the listing of the Caustic Five due to one of his earlier posts. One thing I love about you guys . . . you are constantly and happily advertise just how little you know . . . thus giving validity to the old saying of “ignorance is bliss.”

And just a quick reminder, "takes one to know one." REMEMBER!

[Azutmai]

Not challenges, Mr. fife . . . just letting us all know that you actually have something to stand on rather than empty accusations. Did you see the dance step, everyone? Why . . . ME ? ? Actually show why I can make such statements because THIS is what freedom REALLY is? ME ? Why . . . I don’t go there. ( Then some nonsense about it “running out” years ago. )

Again . . . not challenges, fife. You continue to reveal yourself VERY clearly.

And I truly LOVE the belief that you can teach the universe. Heck . . . I’ll even let you off the hook. That ANY-one can teach the “universe” ANY-thing. I can see you now . . . “Hey LIFE / Universe . . . listen up . . . I’m about to teach you how it goes . . . so pay attention.”

I am “trolling” no more than you guys do . . . seeking out anyone who believes in the Eckankar teachings . . . then jamming them.

I’m just letting this board and other members of other boards know . . . you’ve got NOTHING to stand on . . . and if someone asks . . . then it’s a “challenge” and you dance back away from it.

The ridiculing, Caustic Five. Same approach. They throw theories at the air and then demand that we accept them. SO quick to throw out “he’s misinformed . . . “ or “he doesn’t know any better” . . . but when given the opportunity to display what his stance really is . . . “Nuh-uh . . . that’s a “challenge” and i don’t do challenges.”

Nice touch, fife.

And Tisra Til . . . recognition comes in MANY levels. One is one even par . . . the same level . . . and then both can be caught in the game . . . or . . . one can have been there at one time in the past . . . knows now what the game is . . . and can certainly remember what is involved in the gambit. Hope that is not too complicated for you . . . you should be able to see that in your tisra til. The fact that you have the statement at the level of recognition you accept and understand is most revealing of you too.

[Tisra Til]

Yes, I recognize it in others, who are my self, in actuality. Just be careful how big the stones you throw are. PT, HK, and RT might not take too kindly to that enthusiasm for the cause.
I wouldn't know. I'm not psychic and telepathic like you, PT, HK and RT apparently are. ✌️

[Azutmai]

Tiara Til . . . I had to come back in and acknowledge that you made a great point. It DOES take one to know one . . . but it’s a two step process where once such an awareness is perceived . . . then . . . what does one do with it? Everyone gains by personal experience. If one perceives in another a game that is detrimental . . . limiting . . . even though it is clearly their choice . . . one can offer the other . . . “Hey . . . how about this?” or “Maybe it’s that.” If one’s personal experience has never led them to such conclusions . . . to “see” the behind-the-scenes” that arte being played . . . then the tendency is to try and interact on eve ground . . . which cannot happen with one coming directly from ego and not even knowing it . . . which . . . again . . . is a natural part of the path.

As soon as those types of statements are rebuffed . . . which they were . . . and then the ridicule and mockery and constant whining about plagiarism and such . . . which is a common trap for the mind because it gets sidetracked into parting out statements and words and such and forgetting what the Whole is all about . . . once the ridicule kicks in . . . the self-revelation is made apparent. Then it’s all a question as to how inane the various people want to hold to their mental beliefs . . . which . . . many on this board stake their lives on them. I acknowledge . . . that this too is a natural part of the path. But there are choices . . . always choices. One common choice for this board is . . . do I mock . . . or do I offer something beneficial . . . something positive . . . something growth-oriented.

Of course . . . if one tries . . . we always run the “risk” of Henosis Sage declaring . . . “Hey . . . we didn’t ask for that.” I thought that was a great one. A gatekeeper on an open forum board.

Along with the whole “recognition” thing . . . this is what mind does ! This is what it is designed to do. It is no one’s fault really . . . but it simply takes a LONG time for any individual to say enough is enough and then have enough will power and courage to follow through . . . and then . . . to move beyond the popular religions and philosophies of the day . . . to recognize what they are . . . why they appeal . . . who holds to them . . . and be willing to move beyond them . . . which admittedly . . . puts one in a very awkward place.

No one said it was easy . . . BUT . . . according to fife . . . you can teach the universe just about anything. I absolutely love that one. I’m gonna keep that one around and use it in various examples to others. It will be fabulous to watch the reactions on peoples faces when I tell them . . . “Hey . . . you know that a very learned and self-professed knowledgable guy declared that you can teach the universe just about anything?”

That’s brilliant. If THAT doesn’t show everyone where that person is . . . I don’t know what will.

And no . . . Tisra Til . . . Soul is an individual entity with It’s own specific experiences. If you truly do recognize it in others . . . then you might want to reconsider some of the things you have said . . . or will say . . . to me . . . or anyone else who is sincerely trying to learn. Truth . . . as a stone . . . is peerless. Whether one will listen . . . is totally another gambit. THAT . . . is the big question.

[Tisra Til]

"And no . . . Tisra Til . . . Soul is an individual entity with It’s own specific experiences. If you truly do recognize it in others . . . then you might want to reconsider some of the things you have said . . . or will say . . . to me . . . or anyone else who is sincerely trying to learn. Truth . . . as a stone . . . is peerless. Whether one will listen . . . is totally another gambit. THAT . . . is the big question."

Yeah, you told me enough right there. That's ego talking. I think the others who post here often understand this, and can spot the ego and self-righteousness a mile away.

This is basic Hindu and Buddhist thought, which Twitchell appropriated in his convoluted "system", throwing in just about any eastern mystical, esoteric, occult and metaphysical ideas out there. Nothing original - with perhaps adding a few totally unnecessary extra planes - just a mishmash of ideas that had been floating around for eons.

There is only one I, the universal I that is no different in you as it is in me, fife, PT or anyone else. Hell, the Key To Eckankar says as much - a lot of it directly from The Power Of Awareness by Neville Goddard.

As far as what fife said. I'll let him speak for himself on that; but I think you totally missed the boat there. Oh learned one. ☝🏼

[Henosis Sage]

"Tiara Til . . ."

Oh do stop with the bullshit Kinpoop! You can't help yourself being yourself.

It oozes out of every pore then gets shunted into cyberspace via your keyboard.

". . . or do I offer something beneficial . . . something positive . . . something growth-oriented."

Per your track record you offer nothing beneficial, nothing positive,
and nothing growth-orientated.

You remain a nobody of utter insignificance.

[Azutmai]

sign . . . you are absolutely right. It doesn’t advance anyone towards spiritual understanding. This is what YoU left behind this lifetime. Ignorance is more than a virtue . . . it is bliss . . . to these people. It is self-protection. It’s what keeps them from looking . . . and certainly from recognizing. But this is *their* state of consciousness . . . this is *their* approach right now. Ridicule and mockery goes a long way out in the masses. It does work. What they do not recognize is . . . once past this state . . . how easily and quickly it can be recognized . . . and acknowledged for what it is. In a sense . . . it is the way of “the masses.” Twisting things, mis-quotes, name-calling, outright mockery, ridicule . . . all give rise to the egotistical belief that they are the “superior” one. They will keep this going until death . . . and beyond.

[Etznab]

Post by Azutmai
sign . . . you are absolutely right. It doesn’t advance anyone towards spiritual understanding. This is what YoU left behind this lifetime. Ignorance is more than a virtue . . . it is bliss . . . to these people. It is self-protection. It’s what keeps them from looking . . . and certainly from recognizing. But this is *their* state of consciousness . . . this is *their* approach right now. Ridicule and mockery goes a long way out in the masses. It does work. What they do not recognize is . . . once past this state . . . how easily and quickly it can be recognized . . . and acknowledged for what it is. In a sense . . . it is the way of “the masses.” Twisting things, mis-quotes, name-calling, outright mockery, ridicule . . . all give rise to the egotistical belief that they are the “superior” one. They will keep this going until death . . . and beyond.

Azutmai, Would you defend the lies this person spread?

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/nq-YKbmRt1Q/McAAY5zXAwAJ

Since you like to judge the people in this group. Judge that and tell me what you think. This way I will know for sure how similar you and Kinpa might be.

It's a little strange that Kinpa didn't address you here on this board. Didn't have anything to say to you even when people compared you to him.

You, of course, did address Kinpa:

"[...] Kinpa . . . thanks for whatever you did in the past. If you shook their tree . . . you have been of service. I have NO idea who you were . . . but evidently . . . we are much alike. In that respect alone . . . I humbly greet you as a friend. [... .]"

So you thank him for what he did and greet him as a friend without even looking to see what he did? Have a look. This individual repeatedly made up lies and repeatedly denied having done so. Instead tried to put the blame on those he lied about.

These are in chronological order. Look at how he outright told me I did not have an active membership card and even tried to tell me what was the expiration date of the card. And when that didn't work he tried to backtrack as if he never said what he did.

Kinpa quotes

07/04/15

"Yes, quite like your actions at ARE for the past several years, claiming to have proof of things you cannot prove, and claiming to be an ECKist and yet having no current card....if you'd like to scan a copy of your card and post it here, I would be willing to withdraw that statement, but I think it goes quite a way in proving that YOU have been purposely deceiving others, if not flat out lying..."

"... You have told me you were a member, but that IS a lie, that is the simple fact of the matter, you are NOT a current member of Eckankar, therefore you are most certainly NOT an ECKist by ANY standards! You speak as if you expect that making the CLAIM of being an ECKist has ANY value, however it does not! Yes the card DOES matter! If you were a member and can prove tat, as I said I will retract those words, but you have never proven that, so it is only a CLAIM that is 100% without evidence! [...]

"Your being an "ECKist" is also untrue...you pay sometimes, and you let it lapse, and then you come here and are anything BUT an ECKist...you do NOT have a current card! THAT is the reason you refuse to show anything, but that isn't surprising, you NEVER show anything! [...]"

"Oct./2014 is not exactly current Mr. McLintock, feel free to deny it and claim I am crazy, your habits are well known, but that cannot change the fact that you KNOW this is true, pull your card out and look at it!"

Note: Text for deleted post(s) is here:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/uHSdZQXyfAo/nurhMbhI2G4J

and here:

http://alt.religion.eckankar.narkive.com/5eUyI9Dc/kinpa-wrote-you-have-told-me-you-were-a-eck-member-but-that-is-a-lie-2015-04-07

and here:

http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=331308126&start=20

07/06/15

"... regardless of what I said about your membership, there is nothing you can do, I also get to have my own opinions, but you know full well that if you look at your card it says the date I gave you, you simply refuse to admit that ... ."

07/08/15

"... much like your false Eckankar membership (which does not currently exist) ... ."

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/KVOiP_ApFwM/eVwKF8yOnVsJ

07/11/15

"[...] Richard McLintock! I'd be happy to speak to headquarters and have them get your membership records which at the very least, would prove who was right and who was wrong about that issue. You are completely mistaken if you think that to be some sort of private info! [... .]"

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/BrMdjOdqv8o/q8fU2r-UqPsJ

01/06/16

" ... and I still maintain that you do NOT have a card at all! Tough luck I guess! Have a great night richard! ... ."

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/0Rlgf1XTLIQ/izvFKPj_BAAJ

"That was how this began, I did not ever ask you. I stated that you do NOT have a current one. [...] feel free to prove me wrong!"

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/mKPJPAMq0rs/85-0VhIjs8cJ

"Keep crying and whining each time anyone says a thing that you dislike! Eckankar needs no defense from the likes of you! It amuses me that you think it does however. How flattering that you devote so much of your time to go and dig things up that you try so hard to misrepresent here. Endlessly hilarious! Feel free to not send in your donation to Eckankar! LOL"

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/A6-M2o6FDeM/pwqLLBVwAgAJ

"Most just don't care in the least....how long has it been since you were an actual ECKist?"

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/FskYigVi5Wc/exBGVDf-AAAJ

"Stop masking your own denial! Hilarious! He asked you whether or not you are an ECKist. Why did you not answer him and try to change the subject? I know that you have CLAIMED to be an ECKist, but you have never actually proven that to be true. I like him highly doubt that you are in any way affiliated with Eckankar in the least of ways...it may not be your responsibility, but I am calling you a liar for claiming to be an ECKist. You ARE responsible for making false claims. Deal with it. Also, plagiarism in no way disproves the existence of any Masters... Have a great day richie!"

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/Y3d-5iRxC7s/12NES5OyCAAJ

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/nq-YKbmRt1Q/McAAY5zXAwAJ

*********

Atzumai, here it is in case you missed it:

"Your being an "ECKist" is also untrue...you pay sometimes, and you let it lapse, and then you come here and are anything BUT an ECKist...you do NOT have a current card! THAT is the reason you refuse to show anything, but that isn't surprising, you NEVER show anything! [...]"

"Oct./2014 is not exactly current Mr. McLintock, feel free to deny it and claim I am crazy, your habits are well known, but that cannot change the fact that you KNOW this is true, pull your card out and look at it!"

Note: Text for deleted post(s) is here:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/uHSdZQXyfAo/nurhMbhI2G4J

and here:

http://alt.religion.eckankar.narkive.com/5eUyI9Dc/kinpa-wrote-you-have-told-me-you-were-a-eck-member-but-that-is-a-lie-2015-04-07

and here:

http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=331308126&start=20

Now I challenge you to describe what you think of a person who published those lies.

(BTW, the person at ESC laughed when I told them what another Eckist said about my membership status and membership card online. In fact, we both laughed; at Kinpa's stupidity!)

[fife]

Okay. Undoubtedly a waste of time. Teach the universe, same as teach geometry, teach anatomy. The personal universe, the human energy field, isn't a secret. It's been illustrated and explained.

[Azutmai]

Etznab . . .

who the heck cares about what someone else says. I mean . . . am * I * responsible for that person? He’s got his reasons. They have nothing to do with me. Yes . . . I acknowledged kinpa . . . and I did it not really caring whether I get a response or not. That too . . . is his decision.

The fact that you go through all those posts and drag out statements here and there . . . once again . . . that’s all you people do. Don’t you EVER get tired of it? Have you ever really, really, REALLY come to the understanding within yourself that this is all you do . . . point out faults in other people. Yeah . . . okay . . . you probably do a few other things too. I’ll acknowledge that.

But migosh . . . Etz . . . what kind of life is that?

If my comments are “nasty and vile” . . . then . . . you are in an intense struggle with LIFE because all I am saying is rather common sense . . . which I understand . . . IS on the decline as of late.

And Tisra Til . . .

you are right . . . in the sense that there is just . . . Soul . . . but It is still individualized. Your Soul is not My Soul and My Soul is not someone else’s. Yes . . . I will acknowledge . . . Soul . . . is Soul. Period. Each and every Soul is “made” from the same basic “substance” . . . if I can use those words. And yet each Soul goes through and contends with It’s own individual experiences. In other words . . . Soul is rather a paradox . . . It is . . . yet It isn’t.

Even the use of “my” Soul or “your”” Soul is technically wrong. All Soul is of the same basic nature . . . just different in It’s experiences and what It has learned from them. You know that.

I know you know this . . . and I was happy that you got as far as you did . . . before in the end . . . you just had to throw in the sarcasm. Nice touch. If it made you feel better to claim all of this is ego . . . so be it.

[Etznab]

Post by Azutmai
Etznab . . .
who the heck cares about what someone else says. I mean . . . am * I * responsible for that person? He’s got his reasons. They have nothing to do with me. Yes . . . I acknowledged kinpa . . . and I did it not really caring whether I get a response or not. That too . . . is his decision.
The fact that you go through all those posts and drag out statements here and there . . . once again . . . that’s all you people do. Don’t you EVER get tired of it? Have you ever really, really, REALLY come to the understanding within yourself that this is all you do . . . point out faults in other people. Yeah . . . okay . . . you probably do a few other things too. I’ll acknowledge that.
But migosh . . . Etz . . . what kind of life is that?
If my comments are “nasty and vile” . . . then . . . you are in an intense struggle with LIFE because all I am saying is rather common sense . . . which I understand . . . IS on the decline as of late.
And Tisra Til . . .
you are right . . . in the sense that there is just . . . Soul . . . but It is still individualized. Your Soul is not My Soul and My Soul is not someone else’s. Yes . . . I will acknowledge . . . Soul . . . is Soul. Period. Each and every Soul is “made” from the same basic “substance” . . . if I can use those words. And yet each Soul goes through and contends with It’s own individual experiences. In other words . . . Soul is rather a paradox . . . It is . . . yet It isn’t.
Even the use of “my” Soul or “your”” Soul is technically wrong. All Soul is of the same basic nature . . . just different in It’s experiences and what It has learned from them. You know that.
I know you know this . . . and I was happy that you got as far as you did . . . before in the end . . . you just had to throw in the sarcasm. Nice touch. If it made you feel better to claim all of this is ego . . . so be it.

Azutmai. Thanks for the response.

[Henosis Sage]

Post by Etznab
Azutmai. Thanks for the response.

Hung on his own petard again, and again and again. It is what it is. Pathological.

[Etznab]

Post by Azutmai
Etznab . . .
who the heck cares about what someone else says. I mean . . . am * I * responsible for that person? He’s got his reasons. They have nothing to do with me. Yes . . . I acknowledged kinpa . . . and I did it not really caring whether I get a response or not. That too . . . is his decision.
The fact that you go through all those posts and drag out statements here and there . . . once again . . . that’s all you people do. Don’t you EVER get tired of it? Have you ever really, really, REALLY come to the understanding within yourself that this is all you do . . . point out faults in other people. Yeah . . . okay . . . you probably do a few other things too. I’ll acknowledge that.
But migosh . . . Etz . . . what kind of life is that?
If my comments are “nasty and vile” . . . then . . . you are in an intense struggle with LIFE because all I am saying is rather common sense . . . which I understand . . . IS on the decline as of late.
And Tisra Til . . .
you are right . . . in the sense that there is just . . . Soul . . . but It is still individualized. Your Soul is not My Soul and My Soul is not someone else’s. Yes . . . I will acknowledge . . . Soul . . . is Soul. Period. Each and every Soul is “made” from the same basic “substance” . . . if I can use those words. And yet each Soul goes through and contends with It’s own individual experiences. In other words . . . Soul is rather a paradox . . . It is . . . yet It isn’t.
Even the use of “my” Soul or “your”” Soul is technically wrong. All Soul is of the same basic nature . . . just different in It’s experiences and what It has learned from them. You know that.
I know you know this . . . and I was happy that you got as far as you did . . . before in the end . . . you just had to throw in the sarcasm. Nice touch. If it made you feel better to claim all of this is ego . . . so be it.

This was my question to you, Azutmai.

"Would you defend the lies this person spread?"

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/nq-YKbmRt1Q/McAAY5zXAwAJ

Please look at your response and then look at the question again. It didn't appear that you answered. Would you, or would you not defend those lies? I will make it easy for you here. Forget all the lies and just look at the one about the membership card. As an Eckist would you defend an Eckist lying about another member's membership card and membership status? Do you condone that?

Try not to weasel your way out of the question again. Thank you, Sir.

[Etznab]

Post by Etznab

Post by Azutmai
Etznab . . .
who the heck cares about what someone else says. I mean . . . am * I * responsible for that person? He’s got his reasons. They have nothing to do with me. Yes . . . I acknowledged kinpa . . . and I did it not really caring whether I get a response or not. That too . . . is his decision.
The fact that you go through all those posts and drag out statements here and there . . . once again . . . that’s all you people do. Don’t you EVER get tired of it? Have you ever really, really, REALLY come to the understanding within yourself that this is all you do . . . point out faults in other people. Yeah . . . okay . . . you probably do a few other things too. I’ll acknowledge that.
But migosh . . . Etz . . . what kind of life is that?
If my comments are “nasty and vile” . . . then . . . you are in an intense struggle with LIFE because all I am saying is rather common sense . . . which I understand . . . IS on the decline as of late.
And Tisra Til . . .
you are right . . . in the sense that there is just . . . Soul . . . but It is still individualized. Your Soul is not My Soul and My Soul is not someone else’s. Yes . . . I will acknowledge . . . Soul . . . is Soul. Period. Each and every Soul is “made” from the same basic “substance” . . . if I can use those words. And yet each Soul goes through and contends with It’s own individual experiences. In other words . . . Soul is rather a paradox . . . It is . . . yet It isn’t.
Even the use of “my” Soul or “your”” Soul is technically wrong. All Soul is of the same basic nature . . . just different in It’s experiences and what It has learned from them. You know that.
I know you know this . . . and I was happy that you got as far as you did . . . before in the end . . . you just had to throw in the sarcasm. Nice touch. If it made you feel better to claim all of this is ego . . . so be it.

This was my question to you, Azutmai.
"Would you defend the lies this person spread?"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/nq-YKbmRt1Q/McAAY5zXAwAJ
Please look at your response and then look at the question again. It didn't appear that you answered. Would you, or would you not defend those lies? I will make it easy for you here. Forget all the lies and just look at the one about the membership card. As an Eckist would you defend an Eckist lying about another member's membership card and membership status? Do you condone that?
Try not to weasel your way out of the question again. Thank you, Sir.

Also, now that I remember it, could you please explain this as well.

"To those who strongly oppose Paul’s scant use of plagiarism . . ."

I want to be able to understand you better. So I want to keep asking about that quote of yours, too.

[Tisra Til]

According to Hindu, Buddhist and Theosophical vocabulary, the "soul" is the causal body, or antakharana, and sometimes called the Atma-Buddhi-Manas, a mixture of the Self (sometimes referred to the Higher self) the Buddhic principle (intuition) and the higher-abstract mind. Each life contributes to the addition and expanding of the causal body - antakharana. But the Higher Self - the Atma - is ever at one with spirit and it's connection to the universal "I". But due to desire, the Atma becomes identified with the other bodies, creating a new "personality - ego" in each new life. Disidentification from the bodies and identification with the Absolute is the goal of Atma (I AM consciousness).

I may be saying something you already know. In which case, sorry to waste your time. But if it's not, and you are really a true seeker, I would suggest it might be a good use of time to look into these other traditions, and how these ideas and beliefs developed over historical time. Tibetan Buddhism might be a fruitful search. They have an unbroken line of teachers that have remained for a good two millennia. And there could be a connection with the Pythagorean school in ancient Greece. Which may also have a connection with the Hermetic school.

[Henosis Sage]

Post by Tisra Til
They have an unbroken line of teachers that have remained for a good two millennia. And there could be a connection with the Pythagorean school in ancient Greece. Which may also have a connection with the Hermetic school.

Definitely "relatives" imho.

[Azutmai]

Etznab . . .

Let’s see if I can make it a bit more clear.

1) . . . I did not make the comments.

2) . . . It is not my responsibility to find fault with another person’s path. Whether right or wrong . . . he did what he did. He will be held responsible by a far greater facet of LIFE than you and I.

3) . . . I am astonished at your insistence that I must or must not “condone.” Why does it matter what * I * do or say?

4) . . . Even if he did or did not “lie” . . . if someone EVER uncovers a “lie” that you put forth . . . are we to throw you under the bus to the same extent? If you are a Saint . . . and have NEVER lied . . . to anyone . . . anywhere . . . then I guess you have the right to hold others to a very high level of morality and virtue by comparison.

5) . . . Why do you wish to involve me in an assessment about another? I do not cared what he did or did not say. Can you even understand such a viewpoint since it is so opposite of what you hold? Can you understand . . . let people be people?

6) . . . As far as “scant” is concerned . . . if you cannot see past the end of your nose . . . why try to explain the trees across the street? YoU . . . figure it out. Hold Paul accountable. Throw a noose over a limb and hoist. If you wrap yourself up in one word . . . ONE word . . . and this will make ll the difference in your understanding of it . . . then you are WaY too caught up in the Letter of the Law.

I know mind gets trapped in these skirmishes. I know it delights in them. The insinuations and accusations as such from the mental areas are absolutely endless . . . and I mean that literally. NO one can assist another to step beyond much of anywhere . . . unless and until that person wants a more broad viewpoint . . . which . . . is somewhat a key. A broad viewpoint verses a narrow viewpoint.

What more need be said.

[Etznab]

Here is the question:

"Would you defend the lies of this person?"

*********

With regard to scant plagiarism, I saw something about wrapped up in "one word". Not sure what that means.

The plagiarism was not scant and not one word. It was copious and much of it was credited to Rebazar Tarzs.

[Etznab]

Azutmai, Would you defend the lies this person spread?

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/nq-YKbmRt1Q/McAAY5zXAwAJ

[Henosis Sage]

Post by Azutmai
Etznab . . .
Let’s see if I can make it a bit more clear.
1) . . . I did not make the comments.
2) . . . It is not my responsibility to find fault with another person’s path. Whether right or wrong . . . he did what he did. He will be held responsible by a far greater facet of LIFE than you and I.
3) . . . I am astonished at your insistence that I must or must not “condone.” Why does it matter what * I * do or say?
4) . . . Even if he did or did not “lie” . . . if someone EVER uncovers a “lie” that you put forth . . . are we to throw you under the bus to the same extent? If you are a Saint . . . and have NEVER lied . . . to anyone . . . anywhere . . . then I guess you have the right to hold others to a very high level of morality and virtue by comparison.
5) . . . Why do you wish to involve me in an assessment about another? I do not cared what he did or did not say. Can you even understand such a viewpoint since it is so opposite of what you hold? Can you understand . . . let people be people?
6) . . . As far as “scant” is concerned . . . if you cannot see past the end of your nose . . . why try to explain the trees across the street? YoU . . . figure it out. Hold Paul accountable. Throw a noose over a limb and hoist. If you wrap yourself up in one word . . . ONE word . . . and this will make ll the difference in your understanding of it . . . then you are WaY too caught up in the Letter of the Law.
I know mind gets trapped in these skirmishes. I know it delights in them. The insinuations and accusations as such from the mental areas are absolutely endless . . . and I mean that literally. NO one can assist another to step beyond much of anywhere . . . unless and until that person wants a more broad viewpoint . . . which . . . is somewhat a key. A broad viewpoint verses a narrow viewpoint.
What more need be said.

QUOTE:
5) . . . Why do you wish to involve me in an assessment about another?


QUOTE: This Board as a Learning Aid and the ASSESSMENTS of OTHERS

There is a group of about ten of us that meet off and on . . . discussing the teachings of Eckankar although that wasn’t the initial intent of the board or the group or the name of the group. [...] (it's called the light force network)

This morning I gave out the url to this board . . . and my only suggestion was . . . to start around February 20th and just work up through the posts at how each of the various members interact and design their posts. [...]

This is turning out to be a fabulous learning aid for them. Four of them have already come back with the names of wernertrp, fife, and Etznab. [...]

Though your kind of blatant egotistical hubris is apparent on lots of other boards . . . many of those interested in the teachings of Eckankar have never seen much of this aimed at the specific teachings. I don’t know if all of them have a recognition of the issues of plagiarism. It’s never been brought up. So seeing this kind of inane reaction to what they have discovered to be very vital and workable teachings . . . there is no better way to get to know it than to directly observe it. In most instances . . . I could not make this stuff up. It’s best coming from those that live it. [...]

Thanks SO much. This is an incredible way to see the blindness of mind . . . how one typically cannot see beyond their mental habits and patterns . . . and how easy it is to get caught up in the mental and emotional traps . . . specifically as aimed towards the teachings of Eckankar. There is no other way to learn this except to be out in public and watch the interaction.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/4v0qsgViVRY/M1eEclBbCQAJ

Kind of proves the old saying:
Once a disingenuous, manipulative, lying hypocrite . . . .
always a disingenuous, manipulative, lying hypocrite.





MORE QUOTES?
To those of you who hold and oppose so fiercely Paul’s scant use of plagiarism . . . this reveals much more about where YoU are ....

If one is going to allow “plagiarism” to censor or determine what they read and/or accept . . . then that person will be stopped in their search . . . repeatedly
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/ri5BFW_L5fM/nGDBMsm2BgAJ

It is often very wise to ask some leading and pertinent questions to fine-tune ones observations before making such judgments. Now . . . however . . . I can dismiss any questions from you because I am no ‘sage’ and could never give you any information that is worthy of your viable scrutiny. [...]
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/ri5BFW_L5fM/jRIrwiLwBgAJ

Judgements are NOT . . . simple inquiry. Judgements are NOT . . . clarifying questions. Judgements are NOT . . . simple challenges. [...]

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/ri5BFW_L5fM/WA_LPR_-BgAJ


You could not have revealed yourself more clearly . . . if you tried.
ALL have learned from this.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/ri5BFW_L5fM/CuSezrIDBwAJ

[Henosis Sage]

Post by Azutmai
What more need be said.

QUOTE: "Can you understand . . . let people be people?"

Once a disingenuous, manipulative, lying hypocrite . . . .
always a disingenuous, manipulative, lying hypocrite.

What more need be said?

[Azutmai]

Tisra Til . . .

And therein lies many of the huge differences between popular Buddhism and the Theosophical teachings . . . and the teachings of Eckankar. They are VERY different . . . very much indeed.

Pick your path . . . move along . . . enjoy.

[Tisra Til]

Post by Azutmai
Tisra Til . . .
And therein lies many of the huge differences between popular Buddhism and the Theosophical teachings . . . and the teachings of Eckankar. They are VERY different . . . very much indeed.
Pick your path . . . move along . . . enjoy.

So you are saying that you have researched Buddhism and Theosophy, and compared them to Eckankar?

I found that the essence (esoteric knowledge) of Hinduism, Buddhism and Theosophy are the same; the epitome of the nondual tradition. I would throw Taoism in there as well. Eckankar, in my opinion, is just a mishmash of these traditions, with enough mythology thrown in to create total confusion to anyone who truly tries to understand it. It's much easier just to be a true believer and never use the critical mind. Darn that mind.

So.... choose your path. Try to understand it. And look out for the mud... It's everywhere..... ;o)

[Henosis Sage]

Post by Azutmai
Tisra Til . . .
And therein lies many of the huge differences between popular Buddhism and the Theosophical teachings . . . and the teachings of Eckankar. They are VERY different . . . very much indeed.
Pick your path . . . move along . . . enjoy.

Pick your website forum . . . move along . . . enjoy. aka F.O.! :-)

[Azutmai]

Tisra Til . . .

As an example . . . what I am saying is . . . if I wish to finish my college education . . . you are asking me to return to high school. For me that doesn’t work. If it works for you . . . I’m glad it does. High school is necessary. Lots of great times in high school. If you enjoy that level of education . . . enjoy it.

For me . . . it’s much easier to go beyond mind . . . which does NOT mean you never use the mind . . . and then you understand much more than you ever conceived of.

But this is one of those things that cannot be explained to someone who hasn’t done this yet.

So . . . I have two choices . . . help someone who *wants* to get there . . . get there . . . OR . . . leave them be and let LIFE be their teacher. I let the “other” make that decision.

[Tisra Til]

For me . . . it’s much easier to go beyond mind . . . which does NOT mean you never use the mind . . . and then you understand much more than you ever conceived of.

Doesn't make much sense (to my intellect). You have come to this forum. You are sharing your experiences and beliefs. This requires delving into your own mind, to be understood by others. Regardless of where you think you are at.

If you believe others are in high school while you have left that long ago, then whatever you are sharing are simply opinions based on your experiences. IOW, your opinions are no different than anyone else's. They are like noses, you know.

But if you think you have transcended your mind and understand more than what you ever conceived - which sounds kind of illogical - you still have to use your mind to give it solidity. Conceiving, imo, knows no limits. Doesn't matter if you believe in and follow Eckankar or some other path.

A person has to use the mind, like doing a spiritual exercise, to go beyond mind. IMHO. The Self knows that it knows.

[Henosis Sage]

Post by Azutmai
Tisra Til . . .

QUOTE: "But this is one of those things that cannot be explained to
someone who hasn’t done this yet."

The deaf dumb and blind falsely believing he can lead and advise those he deems are 'Blind.'

[Azutmai]

Etznab . . .

I would even defend you . . . to acknowledge your right to do as you do . . . whether I agree with it or not. Data that you consider to be lies . . . may not be lies at all to another. To every viewpoint . . . there are 359 others . . . leaving it up to the individual to select and live from their own choices . . . through trial-and-error.

I will admit though . . . you are incessant and obsessive . . . which . . . at another level . . . is determination and loyalty. I’m glad you find so much enjoyment uncovering the “lies” of others.

On we go.

[Etznab]

Post by Azutmai
Etznab . . .
I would even defend you . . . to acknowledge your right to do as you do . . . whether I agree with it or not. Data that you consider to be lies . . . may not be lies at all to another. To every viewpoint . . . there are 359 others . . . leaving it up to the individual to select and live from their own choices . . . through trial-and-error.
I will admit though . . . you are incessant and obsessive . . . which . . . at another level . . . is determination and loyalty. I’m glad you find so much enjoyment uncovering the “lies” of others.
On we go.

I remember Rich Smith who once touted 2% plagiarism when I asked him if he had read the book that was plagiarized. He said no. Some people thought Rich was so smart, but he was no authority.

I remember when Doug Marman wanted to know about Sudar Singh being a married man (according to Paul Twitchell) and having a son that went to Oxford. Doug, who had arranged so many audiotapes, spliced them together in order and years later wrote two books about Paul Twitchell and the Eck Masters. Some people thought Doug was so smart, but he was no authority.

I remember when you, Atzumai wrote:

"Data that you consider to be lies . . . may not be lies at all to another.

Specific examples I showed you. One about my membership card. I knew the dates on my card when Kinpa told me other dates that were incorrect. When he publicly spread malicious falsehoods and told me to take out my card and look at it. Kinpa, one of the most abusive liars in the history of a.r.e. Enough times now I have asked your position of such things. I am glad that I and others can see your responses already.

Welcome to alt.religion.eckankar.

[Henosis Sage]

Post by Etznab

Post by Azutmai
Etznab . . .
I would even defend you . . . to acknowledge your right to do as you do . . . whether I agree with it or not. Data that you consider to be lies . . . may not be lies at all to another. To every viewpoint . . . there are 359 others . . . leaving it up to the individual to select and live from their own choices . . . through trial-and-error.
I will admit though . . . you are incessant and obsessive . . . which . . . at another level . . . is determination and loyalty. I’m glad you find so much enjoyment uncovering the “lies” of others.
On we go.

I remember Rich Smith who once touted 2% plagiarism when I asked him if he had read the book that was plagiarized. He said no. Some people thought Rich was so smart, but he was no authority.
I remember when Doug Marman wanted to know about Sudar Singh being a married man (according to Paul Twitchell) and having a son that went to Oxford. Doug, who had arranged so many audiotapes, spliced them together in order and years later wrote two books about Paul Twitchell and the Eck Masters. Some people thought Doug was so smart, but he was no authority.
"Data that you consider to be lies . . . may not be lies at all to another.
Specific examples I showed you. One about my membership card. I knew the dates on my card when Kinpa told me other dates that were incorrect. When he publicly spread malicious falsehoods and told me to take out my card and look at it. Kinpa, one of the most abusive liars in the history of a.r.e. Enough times now I have asked your position of such things. I am glad that I and others can see your responses already.
Welcome to alt.religion.eckankar.

Quote: "Kinpa, one of the most abusive liars in the history of a.r.e."

No, he is not one of, he IS the MOST ABUSIVE LIAR in the history of a.r.e.

And he still his no matter what Sock Puppet ID he might use today or tomorrow.

[Henosis Sage]

Post by Etznab
Welcome to alt.religion.eckankar.

Did you miss him calling TT . . . . Tiara Til?

I mean really ... what are the odds? Of all the people who have passed through a.r.e.

Seriously.

That alone is enough everything else creates a mountain of hard evidence. :-)

[Etznab]

Post by Henosis Sage

Post by Etznab
Welcome to alt.religion.eckankar.

Did you miss him calling TT . . . . Tiara Til?
I mean really ... what are the odds? Of all the people who have passed through a.r.e.
Seriously.
That alone is enough everything else creates a mountain of hard evidence. :-)

TT's name shows up next to all his posts. So its easy to identify the two names. I'm not sure what you were referring to.

I am wondering something else. If Kinpa and Azutmai were the same person, then how easy would it be have a conversation between the two names without having the posting location be the same?

Do you know what I mean?

What I mean is this. In real time, if the two names were originating from a single person, how easy would it be to illustrate a conversation here on a.r.e. between the two of them and at the same time disguise the same posting location?

I'm not very computer savvy so I don't know how it would / could be done. Not that I can prove the two are the same, but maybe there is a test we can do to find out? Because if the two were really one, but wanted to make it look like two, then it would involve another person and one person relaying information to another person to post under the other name in order to show a different posting location. However, one person trying to do that would (IMO) take time and so a real time conversation could not happen here between the two of them; if that was the case.

So far I've seen Azutmai address Kinpa, but not the other way around (unless I missed something). And I did some checking recently and there was enough evidence warrant asking the question straight out if the two were one person. That was why I recently asked Kinpa at least once if he was pretending to be another person.

[Henosis Sage]

Post by Etznab

Post by Henosis Sage

Post by Etznab
Welcome to alt.religion.eckankar.

Did you miss him calling TT . . . . Tiara Til?
I mean really ... what are the odds? Of all the people who have passed through a.r.e.
Seriously.
That alone is enough everything else creates a mountain of hard evidence. :-)

TT's name shows up next to all his posts. So its easy to identify the two names. I'm not sure what you were referring to.

"Tiara Til"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/AC9nlkiwQF0/uksHooopBQAJ

My bad, now I see it is easy for that to have been a keyboard typo.

Post by Etznab
I am wondering something else. If Kinpa and Azutmai were the same person, then how easy would it be have a conversation between the two names without having the posting location be the same?
Do you know what I mean?

Anything is possible online.

Post by Etznab
What I mean is this. In real time, if the two names were originating from a single person, how easy would it be to illustrate a conversation here on a.r.e. between the two of them and at the same time disguise the same posting location?

Easy. But don't worry about it. Whether they are or aren't is quite irrelevant, more a curiosity and nothing more. Deal with what is said by "each" anyway.

Post by Etznab
I'm not very computer savvy so I don't know how it would / could be done. Not that I can prove the two are the same, but maybe there is a test we can do to find out? Because if the two were really one, but wanted to make it look like two, then it would involve another person and one person relaying information to another person to post under the other name in order to show a different posting location. However, one person trying to do that would (IMO) take time and so a real time conversation could not happen here between the two of them; if that was the case.

There is no conversation between them in "real time" fwiw. WHat's not said and what's skipped past is as important as what is said and when. ;-)

Post by Etznab
So far I've seen Azutmai address Kinpa, but not the other way around (unless I missed something). And I did some checking recently and there was enough evidence warrant asking the question straight out if the two were one person. That was why I recently asked Kinpa at least once if he was pretending to be another person.

Well if he was he isn't going to admit it is he?

Proven Liars are not trustworthy period. Everything he says is crap. Everything he doesn't say is crap too. LOL

Ignore it all imho.

[Henosis Sage]

Post by Etznab
Welcome to alt.religion.eckankar.

And look at him BITE and twist and turn - if it looks like a snake and hisses :-)