On Sunday, 13 March 2022 at 01:31:56 UTC+11, Henosis Sage wrote:
BACKGROUNDER -- INTEL SECURITY AND ALL THAT STUFF ... INCLUDING MISREPRESENTATIONS/ DISTORTIONS BY THE USA
Putin's Invasion of Ukraine Salon | Ray McGovern, John Mearsheimer
John Mearsheimer
@ http://youtu.be/ppD_bhWODDc
07:22
now it's important to understand that
07:24
when we talk about western policy and we
07:27
focus on
07:28
nato and expansion of nato into ukraine
07:32
that actually western policy had three
07:34
prongs to it
07:36
the core prong was definitely
07:38
integrating ukraine into nato but the
07:40
other two prongs were integrating
07:43
ukraine
07:44
into the european union
07:46
and turning ukraine into a pro-western
07:50
liberal democracy
07:52
in effect
07:53
putting in place the orange revolution
07:57
and these three prongs of the strategy
08:01
were all designed to make ukraine
08:04
a pro-western country a country in the
08:07
west orbit sitting on russia's border
08:11
and again the russians made it
08:13
unequivocally clear at the time
08:16
that this was not going to happen
08:19
now
08:20
the first crisis broke out in february
08:23
2014 the way i like to think about this
08:26
is that you had a major crisis in
08:27
february 2014
08:30
broke out that date then you had a major
08:33
crisis
08:34
breaking out in december
08:36
of last year that's december 2021 and on
08:40
february 24th of this year the war
08:42
started
08:44
now
08:45
what about this crisis in february of
08:49
2014 february 22nd to be exact
08:53
it was precipitated in large part by
08:57
a coup
08:58
that was supported by the united states
09:00
that took place in ukraine
09:03
and resulted in a pro-russian leader
09:07
president yanukovych being overthrown
09:10
and being replaced by a pro-american
09:13
prime minister
09:15
the russians found this intolerable
09:19
at the same time they were debating
09:21
with the west and with the ukrainians
09:24
over
09:25
eu expansion and always in the
09:28
background at that point in time was
09:30
nato expansion
09:31
this blew up and it had two consequences
09:34
one is that the russians in effect took
09:37
crimea away from ukraine for themselves
09:40
they had no intention of ever letting
09:42
sevastopol
09:46
the second thing that happened is that
09:49
the russians helped foster a civil war
09:52
in eastern ukraine and of course that
09:55
civil war festered well after 2014
09:59
but the crisis really blew up in 2014.
10:03
then
10:04
starting about mid-year
10:07
and really heating up at the end of last
10:09
year i would say in december 2021
10:12
was a second major crisis and the
10:15
question is what caused this crisis and
10:18
in my opinion it was caused largely by
10:21
the fact
10:22
that ukraine was becoming a de facto
10:26
member of nato
IE JOINT MILITARY OPS, US WEAPONS GIVEN TO UKRAUINE INCLUDING STINGERS AND DRONES
------------------------------
@ http://youtu.be/ppD_bhWODDc
23:50
so we better be extremely careful here
23:52
regarding what we do in terms of pushing
23:55
the russians into the corner
23:57
but again
23:58
i'm not sure that's going to happen
24:00
because i think what's going to happen
24:02
here is that in a competition between us
24:05
and the russians the russians will win
24:08
now you're saying to yourself why is he
24:10
saying that i think
24:12
that if you
24:14
uh think about this
24:17
you want to think about who has the
24:18
greater resolve
24:20
okay who really cares more about this
24:23
situation the russians or the americans
24:26
the americans do not care that much
24:28
about ukraine
24:30
the
24:31
americans have made it clear they are
24:34
not even willing to fight and die for
24:36
ukraine so it's not that important to us
24:39
for the russians they have made it clear
24:42
it's an existential threat so the
24:44
balance of resolve i believe favors them
24:48
so as we walk up the escalation ladder
24:51
moving forward
24:53
my guess and it's just my guess is that
24:55
the russians will prevail not the
24:57
americans and the russians will prevail
25:00
because the balance of resolve favors
25:02
them
25:05
now the question is
25:07
who loses this war
25:10
i think it doesn't matter much to the
25:12
united states if we lose in the sense
25:14
that the russians prevail
25:17
in ukraine i think the real losers in
25:20
this war are the ukrainians
25:23
and i think what's happened here is we
25:25
have led the ukrainians down the
25:28
primrose path
25:30
we have pushed very hard to encourage
25:33
the ukrainians to want to become part of
25:36
nato
25:37
we have pushed very hard to make them
25:39
part of nato we have pushed very hard to
25:43
make them
25:44
a western bulwark on russia's borders
25:47
despite the fact the russians made it
25:49
clear that this was unacceptable to them
25:51
we in effect and here i'm talking about
25:53
the west we took a stick and we poked
25:56
the bear in the eye
25:57
and as you all know if you take a stick
26:00
and you poke a bear in the eye
26:02
that bear is probably not going to smile
26:04
and laugh at what you're doing that bear
26:06
is probably going to fight back and
26:07
that's exactly what's happening here and
26:10
that bear is going to tear apart ukraine
26:12
that bear is in the process of tearing
26:14
apart ukraine
26:15
and again we go back to where we started
26:18
who bears responsibility for this
26:20
do the russians bear responsibility for
26:22
this i don't think so there's no
26:24
question the russians are doing the
26:26
dirty work i don't want to make light of
26:28
that fact but the question is what
26:30
caused the russians to do this
26:33
and in my opinion the answer is very
26:35
simple the united states of america
======
@ http://youtu.be/ppD_bhWODDc
27:12
seems to me the highest stakes are with
27:14
the ukrainian people and what we've
27:17
watched in the last week
27:19
is that they have
27:20
something to say about this
27:22
which has nothing to do with what we
27:25
want or what the russians want it's what
27:27
they want and it seems to me
27:29
based on what we're seeing 24 7
27:32
they will never surrender
27:34
and the russians will be faced with a
27:35
situation much worse than they faced in
27:38
afghanistan
27:42
well we'll see whether that happens or
27:44
not
27:47
there's no question that the ukrainians
27:50
have agency i don't dispute that and my
27:53
view all along is that if the ukrainians
27:56
were smart what they would do is divorce
27:59
themselves from the united states right
28:01
they've hitched their wagon to the
28:02
united states and your description of
28:05
how the ukrainians are behaving today is
28:07
absolutely correct and we're encouraging
28:09
that
28:10
right and
28:12
as i said in my presentation the
28:14
question is what are the consequences of
28:16
that
28:17
you're quite confident that the russians
28:19
will lose in ukraine the way they lost
28:22
in afghanistan i would not bet a lot of
28:24
money on that but i would note that even
28:27
if the russians lose in the process they
28:29
will destroy ukraine
28:31
and from ukraine's point of view that's
28:33
not a good thing this is why my view is
28:36
that ukraine should have long ago
28:38
divorced itself from the united states
28:40
and worked out a modus vivendi with
28:43
russia
28:44
uh my view is if you're a reasonably
28:48
small
28:49
power in the international system and
28:51
you live next door to a gorilla
28:54
you have to go to great lengths to
28:56
accommodate that gorilla and the last
28:58
thing you want to do is poke that
28:59
gorilla in the eye because the gorilla
29:02
will do great damage to you and it
29:04
probably will never forget
29:06
i don't know if you're old enough to
29:07
remember
29:09
when fidel castro came to power in 1959
29:13
but shortly thereafter we put sanctions
29:16
on fidel castro
29:18
and on cuba and those sanctions are
29:20
basically still on cuba we've never
29:23
gotten over the fact that
29:25
cuba
29:27
behaved in ways that we considered to be
29:30
unacceptable
29:31
and i think you have a similar situation
29:34
here and my view is yes the ukrainians
29:38
have agency but if they were smart
29:40
they'd divorce themselves from the
29:41
united states and
29:43
uh try to work out a modus vivendi with
29:46
russia
====================
RAY MCGOVERN VIPS
2013 background putin obama build trust ... then comes neocon nuland and coup in 2014
http://youtu.be/ppD_bhWODDc
march 17 2021 timeline of key events, biden calls putin a killer, zelensky declres taking back crimea by force if needed (with US pre-approval of course) and russian troop buildup begins in late March -- Biden calls for a summit.
http://youtu.be/ppD_bhWODDc
june 16th summit takes place , biden weird uninformed/distorting china-russia relationship --- DEC 15 china-russia "exceeds an alliance" says putin
5:44
we are very close allies a matter of
45:47
fact they made the claim
45:48
that our relationship our strategic
45:51
relationship
45:52
exceeds an alliance
45:54
in its closeness
45:56
and in its
45:57
effectiveness
http://youtu.be/ppD_bhWODDc
SEE DEC 15 - Putin and Xi cement partnership in face of Western pressure
Xi accuses West of meddling in Chinese affairs
Kremlin says Xi backs Putin push for security guarantees
Putin, Xi expected to meet at Beijing Winter Olympics in Feb
Trade between Russia and China rising sharply - Putin
Their conversation, eight days after Putin spoke to U.S. President Joe Biden in a similar format, underscored how shared hostility to the West is bringing Moscow and Beijing closer together.
https://www.reuters.com/world/china/russia-says-xi-backs-putin-push-western-security-guarantees-2021-12-15/
AND
46:19
on that very same day
46:22
uh
46:23
the the russians gave
46:25
those draft treaties those very
46:28
far-reaching
46:30
proposals they still call them
46:32
on the security situation in europe and
46:35
how it has to change
FROM PUTIN TO BIDEN
DRAFT Treaty between The United States of America and the Russian Federation on security guarantees
https://mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/rso/nato/1790818/?lang=en
47:03
okay now we fast forward to this year
47:05
february 4th putin is in beijing to
47:09
launch the olympics with z
47:12
and he says that uh you know our
47:14
friendship uh well actually they both
47:17
say a very very important joint
47:19
declaration
47:20
not just rhetoric guys this is the real
47:23
thing
47:24
friendship between these two states has
47:26
no limits
47:27
there are no quote
47:30
forbidden areas of cooperation well
47:34
well are we to take them at their word
http://youtu.be/ppD_bhWODDc
Joint Russia-China Statement Articulates United Opposition to Western Alliance
February 4, 2022
https://scheerpost.com/2022/02/04/joint-russia-china-statement-articulates-united-opposition-to-western-alliance/
7:40
winter olympics
47:42
end when are they over
47:44
people were saying that
47:46
the russians might
47:48
might strike out against ukraine
47:51
but would pause until the olympics were
47:53
over
47:54
uh when did the russians invade ukraine
47:58
or you know
47:59
a couple days after the ends of the
48:02
olympics
February 21, 2022
President of Russia Vladimir Putin: Citizens of Russia, friends,
My address concerns the events in Ukraine and why this is so important for us, for Russia. Of course, my message is also addressed to our compatriots in Ukraine.
The matter is very serious and needs to be discussed in depth.
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/67828
RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE
dead wrong
48:37
on whether the russians would invade
48:41
ukraine
48:43
i didn't think they needed to
48:45
i thought they could get what they
48:47
wanted simply by acquiescing in the
48:50
notion that they couldn't get nato to
48:52
stay no more people in nato
48:55
not not going to happen anyway
48:58
and then going for the what they call
49:00
the uh the secondary issues like the
49:03
employment of cruise missiles and worse
49:06
uh right at the eastern
49:08
at the western edge of of russia but no
49:13
it ends up here uh that the chinese
49:16
china has supported
49:18
uh
49:19
putin
49:21
i think you know not only
49:23
a lot of russian experts
49:25
but a lot of the chinese experts were
49:27
surprised at that
49:29
i mean rhetoric is one thing
49:31
violating your cardinal foreign policy
49:34
principle of non-intervention and the
49:36
affairs of other people as as was
49:39
china's is another thing
49:42
and it's been a whole week now uh we
49:44
don't know maybe the chinese would
49:46
change their mind but so far
49:48
and not only china
49:50
india
49:52
now you know i asked myself the question
49:54
well what's different between the west
49:56
and the us and india and china
49:59
well i mean one obvious difference
50:02
is they were all white
50:05
and they're non-white
50:08
and that could be very mischievous
50:11
because james baldwin
50:13
way back when
50:15
suggested that it's much easier for
50:17
imperialist whites to get out after
50:21
blacks or browns or yellows
50:24
so
50:27
does exceeds an alliance mean mutual
50:29
defense pact
50:30
well uh
50:33
probably not i don't think the chinese
50:36
want to be bound by what happens in
50:39
europe and i don't think the russians
50:41
want to be bound by what some crazy
50:44
chinamen might do vis-a-vis taiwan
50:47
but it's a virtual alliance
50:50
and it's no small thing
50:52
that china is supporting
50:55
uh supporting putin
50:58
on the ground
51:00
at the u.n
51:01
elsewhere
51:03
and it's more than rhetoric ......................
http://youtu.be/ppD_bhWODDc
CIRCA 2015 PUTIN LOSES HIS COOL WITH WESTERN JOURNOS
53:18
next clip which just is about a minute
53:21
long and it shows poutine
53:24
very uncharacteristically
53:26
losing is cool
53:28
he's talking to western
53:30
journalists
53:31
they don't get it okay they have no idea
53:34
how the russians look at this as a
53:36
threat to their national security as a
53:39
threat to the retaliatory capability if
53:42
these
53:44
missile defense systems are able to
53:46
squelch their offensive capability with
53:48
their icbm
--
54:37
first thing he says to them is now i
54:40
don't expect you to report this
54:42
factually to your into your newspapers
54:45
and i don't even expect you to tell your
54:47
superiors about it
http://youtu.be/ppD_bhWODDc
SEE VIDEO OF PUTIN .... once again they lied to us... the system is functioning being loaded with missiles ... over 1000 klms ... they know we know ... its only you they tell tales to and you buy it and spread it to citizens of your own countries !!!!!!!!!!!
YOUR PEOPLE IN TURN DO NOT FEEL A SENSE OF THE IMPENDING DANGER - THIS IS WHAT WORRIES ME. ....
WHILE THEY PRETEND THAT NOTHING IS GOING ON ...... I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO GET THROUGH TO YOU ANYMORE ....
56:04
so there you have it you know
56:06
what's the matter with you folks why
56:08
can't you understand this and he's
56:10
talking to the journalists of course and
56:12
you can't see any rational discussion of
56:14
this in western media
56:18
so just to finish up here um
56:21
here's putin way back then saying
56:25
how am i going to get through to you
56:27
and it was the same in his official
56:29
conversations with u.s statesmen okay
56:32
and that's when he and the military in
56:35
russia built up these hypersonic
56:38
missiles
56:39
and he said
56:40
look NOW YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO ME
56:42
and if that's when he went after china
56:45
to become a virtual ally
=======================
BUT NO, THEY ARE NOT LISTENING TO PUTIN AND RUSSIA AT ALL.
THEY ARE LYING TO EVERYONE ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON.
THEY [TPTB IN THE USA ] ARE ALL INSANE PARANOID DELUSIONAL GRANDIOSE NUTCASES ONE AND ALL .....
==============================
MCGOVERN CONTINUES
56:48
now um
56:53
i thought
56:55
as i wrote
56:56
that pouching making these far-reaching
57:00
proposals
57:01
would be satisfied with half a loaf
57:04
this loaf seemed really important to him
57:07
the notion that
57:09
some hopes and worse could be stationed
57:12
right right across the border
57:15
but no
57:16
he wasn't satisfied obviously what he
57:19
wanted to do and as i underestimated was
57:21
to make sure that he protected russian
57:24
speaking and russian citizens uh in
57:27
ukraine
57:28
and he's done that and still more
57:31
so where will he stop i think he stops
57:34
when he's when he's satisfied that there
57:37
are no no more nazis or proto-nazis or
57:40
neo-nazis in power there that's gonna
57:43
take some cleansing uh but he's gonna do
57:46
it and then i hope and i i i expect that
57:50
the chinese and the russians get
57:52
together okay that's enough of that
57:53
stuff now let's get together and make
57:55
sure nothing untoward happens in the
57:58
future
57:59
uh i'll i'll yield the floor then uh
58:01
thanks for listening and i really look
58:03
forward to your comment your your your
58:05
questions
http://youtu.be/ppD_bhWODDc
AT BEST THE CORPORATE MSM MEDIA AND THE INDEPENDENT "LEFTY" MEDIA AND GOP RIGHT WING MEDIA ARE ALL INCOMPETENT ... AT WORSE IN COLLUSION WITH GOVT/INTEL/MILITARY SERVICES
PLUS THE ONGOING MILITARY INDUSTRIAL PLUS DIGITAL IT ECONOMY / CHEMICAL-BIOWEAPONS COMPLEX WARMONGERING ...
WHEN NATO EXPANDS, WHEN A NEW THREAT IS DEFINED THE MIC ARMS INDUSTRY MAKE ANOTHER FORTUNE FROM US TAXPAYERS AND FROM NATO COUNTRIES
ITS REALLY THAT SIMPLE .... THE RHETORIC IN CIRCULAR REASONING ECHO CHAMBERS IS SELF-REINFORCING MIND NUMBING IDEOLOGICAL SELF-SERVING PROPAGANDA
THE UKRAINIANS ARE BEING USED AS PATSIES SO THE US CAN ECONOMICALLY DESTROY RUSSIA, GET ONE UP ON CHINA, AND SO THAT THE MEGA WEALTHY TPTB ALREADY [ USA/UK ETC] CAN GET EVEN RICHER AND MORE POWERFUL !!
