For Fifey .... :-)

That's curious "fife" (sic) because I have never seen you address Eckankar with ontology and epistemology lines or in regard to justifying your own past and current beliefs here ... and it's been years and years so far.
What are your beliefs of Eckankar, history and TRUTH mate???? Besides you opine eztnab is a pain in your neck - period - literally pissing you off for years possibly for decades now?
Would you be so kind to show him and I and future readers here how to question Eckankar and it's ontology and epistemology and describe your own beliefs are of Eckankar and what have you decided is the truth about all this?
Come stop hiding behind your non-stop tedious mindless criticisms and putdowns of Etznab and spill your beans... as in TELL THE TRUTH YOURSELF FOR ONCE ON A.R.E. hey!
I still believe in miracles .... SO STOP PISSING EVERYONE OFF FOR ONCE ... and THANKS IN ADVANCE ..... Seaniekins
*twinkle*
PS
You might go the whole hog and tell us what you believe about Harold, and Twitchell, and Marman and Matt Sharpe while you're at it.
PPS
Can fife cut the mustard or not? I think not based on his historical patterns of personal ontological and epistemological traits.

No, I am only kidding and having some fun - BUT seriously though, please do teach by example here.

Show eztnab and anyone else what you mean by " how to question Eckankars ontology and epistemology. "

Show us a few examples of how you went about that yourself .... how you were led to change your " beliefs" about it and what eckankar is really all about in the end.

I presume you' re saying [claimng suggesting?] that can be done without any reference back to lifting teachings ideas and verbatim texts from others, other religions, other gurus, other cultists, other spiritualists, other holy books, other novelists and fiction writers.

and for some reason etznab discussing [endlessly?] eckankar history and plagiarism issues .... plus I am assuming you believe Eckankar is totally fraudulent and not what ot presents itself to be or for students to be able to achieve what twitchell klemp etc claimed it can ... right? i am not sure, please clarify correct me if i'm putting words in your mouth here fife .... i think this is what youve said before more or less, but i could be wrong, if so what is the truth of what you believe and why is that so .... thanks
cheers

fife

2022-04-11 14:12:23 UTC

That's curious "fife" (sic) because I have never seen you address Eckankar with ontology and epistemology lines or in regard to justifying your own past and current beliefs here ... and it's been years and years so far.
What are your beliefs of Eckankar, history and TRUTH mate???? Besides you opine eztnab is a pain in your neck - period - literally pissing you off for years possibly for decades now?
Would you be so kind to show him and I and future readers here how to question Eckankar and it's ontology and epistemology and describe your own beliefs are of Eckankar and what have you decided is the truth about all this?
Come stop hiding behind your non-stop tedious mindless criticisms and putdowns of Etznab and spill your beans... as in TELL THE TRUTH YOURSELF FOR ONCE ON A.R.E. hey!
I still believe in miracles .... SO STOP PISSING EVERYONE OFF FOR ONCE ... and THANKS IN ADVANCE ..... Seaniekins
*twinkle*
PS
You might go the whole hog and tell us what you believe about Harold, and Twitchell, and Marman and Matt Sharpe while you're at it.
PPS
Can fife cut the mustard or not? I think not based on his historical patterns of personal ontological and epistemological traits.

No, I am only kidding and having some fun - BUT seriously though, please do teach by example here.
Show eztnab and anyone else what you mean by " how to question Eckankars ontology and epistemology. "
Show us a few examples of how you went about that yourself .... how you were led to change your " beliefs" about it and what eckankar is really all about in the end.
I presume you' re saying [claimng suggesting?] that can be done without any reference back to lifting teachings ideas and verbatim texts from others, other religions, other gurus, other cultists, other spiritualists, other holy books, other novelists and fiction writers.
and for some reason etznab discussing [endlessly?] eckankar history and plagiarism issues .... plus I am assuming you believe Eckankar is totally fraudulent and not what ot presents itself to be or for students to be able to achieve what twitchell klemp etc claimed it can ... right? i am not sure, please clarify correct me if i'm putting words in your mouth here fife .... i think this is what youve said before more or less, but i could be wrong, if so what is the truth of what you believe and why is that so .... thanks
cheers

Hey,Sean. Cheers.

Seaniekins? :-)
Anyway. Wow. You don't ask for much do you? I was only suggesting something else Etznab could do to question Eckankar. But he doesn't want to question Eckankar. He wants to save it.

Mind is a continuous cycle that people don't know how to process. So they'll listen to any crap someone comes up with.

Let me just tell you what I've found it all comes down to and you can put that down to "it's all crap" or whatever class you wish.

All ontology and all epistemology are based on the psychic perceptions of volume (ontology) and structure (epistemology).

The psychic perceptions of
IMAGINATION
FORM WITHOUT FORM
INNER WILL
RELATIONS WITH OTHERS
RATIONAL MIND
EMOTIONS WITH RESPECT TO SELF.
PHYSICAL SENSATION
for volume (ontology)

and
COLLECTIVE KARMA
KARMA OF THE TIME
KARMA OF A PLACE
KARMA OF A FAMILY
KARMA OF AN INDIVIDUAL
for structure (epistemology)

And it's horses for courses all the way.

There'll always be people who are gullible enough to go for something like the "wow" of Eckankar. Or Sant Mat, Radha Soami, Vedanta, Sikhism, Sufism, Scientology, science fiction, or whatever they need to fill the hole in their head that they have.

Do you really want me to tell you how to be an atheist, and why? You really don't want that. No one does.

It's all one's organic self and its illusion. And everyone does what they do with it. Are there better ways and worse? Of course. But everyone has to pick and process. There's no one way that's right for everyone.

ID
SUPEREGO
EGO
THE EXPERIENCES OF GRATIFICATION
THE SLEEP CYCLE

No one gives a shit? Fuck it. It's all on their heads , then.

Henosis Sage

2022-04-14 14:59:15 UTC

That's curious "fife" (sic) because I have never seen you address Eckankar with ontology and epistemology lines or in regard to justifying your own past and current beliefs here ... and it's been years and years so far.
What are your beliefs of Eckankar, history and TRUTH mate???? Besides you opine eztnab is a pain in your neck - period - literally pissing you off for years possibly for decades now?
Would you be so kind to show him and I and future readers here how to question Eckankar and it's ontology and epistemology and describe your own beliefs are of Eckankar and what have you decided is the truth about all this?
Come stop hiding behind your non-stop tedious mindless criticisms and putdowns of Etznab and spill your beans... as in TELL THE TRUTH YOURSELF FOR ONCE ON A.R.E. hey!
I still believe in miracles .... SO STOP PISSING EVERYONE OFF FOR ONCE ... and THANKS IN ADVANCE ..... Seaniekins
*twinkle*
PS
You might go the whole hog and tell us what you believe about Harold, and Twitchell, and Marman and Matt Sharpe while you're at it.
PPS
Can fife cut the mustard or not? I think not based on his historical patterns of personal ontological and epistemological traits.

No, I am only kidding and having some fun - BUT seriously though, please do teach by example here.
Show eztnab and anyone else what you mean by " how to question Eckankars ontology and epistemology. "
Show us a few examples of how you went about that yourself .... how you were led to change your " beliefs" about it and what eckankar is really all about in the end.
I presume you' re saying [claimng suggesting?] that can be done without any reference back to lifting teachings ideas and verbatim texts from others, other religions, other gurus, other cultists, other spiritualists, other holy books, other novelists and fiction writers.
and for some reason etznab discussing [endlessly?] eckankar history and plagiarism issues .... plus I am assuming you believe Eckankar is totally fraudulent and not what ot presents itself to be or for students to be able to achieve what twitchell klemp etc claimed it can ... right? i am not sure, please clarify correct me if i'm putting words in your mouth here fife .... i think this is what youve said before more or less, but i could be wrong, if so what is the truth of what you believe and why is that so .... thanks
cheers

Hey,Sean. Cheers.
Seaniekins? :-)
Anyway. Wow. You don't ask for much do you? I was only suggesting something else Etznab could do to question Eckankar. But he doesn't want to question Eckankar. He wants to save it.
Mind is a continuous cycle that people don't know how to process. So they'll listen to any crap someone comes up with.
Let me just tell you what I've found it all comes down to and you can put that down to "it's all crap" or whatever class you wish.
All ontology and all epistemology are based on the psychic perceptions of volume (ontology) and structure (epistemology).
The psychic perceptions of
IMAGINATION
FORM WITHOUT FORM
INNER WILL
RELATIONS WITH OTHERS
RATIONAL MIND
EMOTIONS WITH RESPECT TO SELF.
PHYSICAL SENSATION
for volume (ontology)
and
COLLECTIVE KARMA
KARMA OF THE TIME
KARMA OF A PLACE
KARMA OF A FAMILY
KARMA OF AN INDIVIDUAL
for structure (epistemology)
And it's horses for courses all the way.
There'll always be people who are gullible enough to go for something like the "wow" of Eckankar. Or Sant Mat, Radha Soami, Vedanta, Sikhism, Sufism, Scientology, science fiction, or whatever they need to fill the hole in their head that they have.
Do you really want me to tell you how to be an atheist, and why? You really don't want that. No one does.
It's all one's organic self and its illusion. And everyone does what they do with it. Are there better ways and worse? Of course. But everyone has to pick and process. There's no one way that's right for everyone.
ID
SUPEREGO
EGO
THE EXPERIENCES OF GRATIFICATION
THE SLEEP CYCLE
No one gives a shit? Fuck it. It's all on their heads , then.

i appreciate the reply, thx.

though i am stuck with your own version of what ontology and epistemology means, what they are about

eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology do not appear to reflect what you suggest above ..... it seems like you have arrived at a different place via a novel route.

eg The structure of a body of knowledge or justified belief, including whether all justified beliefs must be derived from justified foundational beliefs or whether justification requires only a coherent set of beliefs .... doesn't relate back to your karma list or so it seems.

could be a semantics issue or something deeper than that. i'm reminded of twitchell making up his own unique meanings for the words he used. chaos and confusion has reigned ever since.

i suspect etznab is right on target focusing on the texts, copying plagiarisms, changes to original texts and the meaning or words and the structure of eckankar beliefs and how where and when and from what they were formed. plagiriasm and verbaim copying was never the real issue for lane or etznab, it has alwasy been - then what does that therefore mean in the bigger picture. stolen texts is an undeniable epistemological event .... eckankar's beliefs and ontology are what they are because someone wrote it down. later such texts were used in a courts of law .... as we all know.

twitchell's theivery of others writings form ideas and the twisting it almost beyond recognition into a convulted mess of chaotic meanings has always been what etznab has been questioning ..... at least thats what it has always looked to me.

it sure went over the heads of prior so called experts here such the great magician doug marman lol

oh well .... once upon a time i cared about such matters. long long ago .... now its quite obvious it is not worth thinking about let alone discussing it seriously.

my ref is the wise king by kahill gibran ..... the well has been well and truly poisoned.

same goes for the modern world today .... ala media politics wars climate issues capitalism and propaganda on steroids. i guess it was always going to be so .... it is what it is, the world along with twitchells crazy creation by a madman. shrug.

cheers

ps sorry if none of that makes any sense, but this is where we are at. thats the reality of it today ..... i can't fix it and don't want too.

Tisra Til

2022-04-14 21:02:28 UTC

That's curious "fife" (sic) because I have never seen you address Eckankar with ontology and epistemology lines or in regard to justifying your own past and current beliefs here ... and it's been years and years so far.
What are your beliefs of Eckankar, history and TRUTH mate???? Besides you opine eztnab is a pain in your neck - period - literally pissing you off for years possibly for decades now?
Would you be so kind to show him and I and future readers here how to question Eckankar and it's ontology and epistemology and describe your own beliefs are of Eckankar and what have you decided is the truth about all this?
Come stop hiding behind your non-stop tedious mindless criticisms and putdowns of Etznab and spill your beans... as in TELL THE TRUTH YOURSELF FOR ONCE ON A.R.E. hey!
I still believe in miracles .... SO STOP PISSING EVERYONE OFF FOR ONCE ... and THANKS IN ADVANCE ..... Seaniekins
*twinkle*
PS
You might go the whole hog and tell us what you believe about Harold, and Twitchell, and Marman and Matt Sharpe while you're at it.
PPS
Can fife cut the mustard or not? I think not based on his historical patterns of personal ontological and epistemological traits.

No, I am only kidding and having some fun - BUT seriously though, please do teach by example here.
Show eztnab and anyone else what you mean by " how to question Eckankars ontology and epistemology. "
Show us a few examples of how you went about that yourself .... how you were led to change your " beliefs" about it and what eckankar is really all about in the end.
I presume you' re saying [claimng suggesting?] that can be done without any reference back to lifting teachings ideas and verbatim texts from others, other religions, other gurus, other cultists, other spiritualists, other holy books, other novelists and fiction writers.
and for some reason etznab discussing [endlessly?] eckankar history and plagiarism issues .... plus I am assuming you believe Eckankar is totally fraudulent and not what ot presents itself to be or for students to be able to achieve what twitchell klemp etc claimed it can ... right? i am not sure, please clarify correct me if i'm putting words in your mouth here fife .... i think this is what youve said before more or less, but i could be wrong, if so what is the truth of what you believe and why is that so .... thanks
cheers

Hey,Sean. Cheers.
Seaniekins? :-)
Anyway. Wow. You don't ask for much do you? I was only suggesting something else Etznab could do to question Eckankar. But he doesn't want to question Eckankar. He wants to save it.
Mind is a continuous cycle that people don't know how to process. So they'll listen to any crap someone comes up with.
Let me just tell you what I've found it all comes down to and you can put that down to "it's all crap" or whatever class you wish.
All ontology and all epistemology are based on the psychic perceptions of volume (ontology) and structure (epistemology).
The psychic perceptions of
IMAGINATION
FORM WITHOUT FORM
INNER WILL
RELATIONS WITH OTHERS
RATIONAL MIND
EMOTIONS WITH RESPECT TO SELF.
PHYSICAL SENSATION
for volume (ontology)
and
COLLECTIVE KARMA
KARMA OF THE TIME
KARMA OF A PLACE
KARMA OF A FAMILY
KARMA OF AN INDIVIDUAL
for structure (epistemology)
And it's horses for courses all the way.
There'll always be people who are gullible enough to go for something like the "wow" of Eckankar. Or Sant Mat, Radha Soami, Vedanta, Sikhism, Sufism, Scientology, science fiction, or whatever they need to fill the hole in their head that they have.
Do you really want me to tell you how to be an atheist, and why? You really don't want that. No one does.
It's all one's organic self and its illusion. And everyone does what they do with it. Are there better ways and worse? Of course. But everyone has to pick and process. There's no one way that's right for everyone.
ID
SUPEREGO
EGO
THE EXPERIENCES OF GRATIFICATION
THE SLEEP CYCLE
No one gives a shit? Fuck it. It's all on their heads , then.

Wait. The Tao isn’t the way? 🤷🏻‍♂️

fife

2022-04-18 22:30:35 UTC

That's curious "fife" (sic) because I have never seen you address Eckankar with ontology and epistemology lines or in regard to justifying your own past and current beliefs here ... and it's been years and years so far.
What are your beliefs of Eckankar, history and TRUTH mate???? Besides you opine eztnab is a pain in your neck - period - literally pissing you off for years possibly for decades now?
Would you be so kind to show him and I and future readers here how to question Eckankar and it's ontology and epistemology and describe your own beliefs are of Eckankar and what have you decided is the truth about all this?
Come stop hiding behind your non-stop tedious mindless criticisms and putdowns of Etznab and spill your beans... as in TELL THE TRUTH YOURSELF FOR ONCE ON A.R.E. hey!
I still believe in miracles .... SO STOP PISSING EVERYONE OFF FOR ONCE ... and THANKS IN ADVANCE ..... Seaniekins
*twinkle*
PS
You might go the whole hog and tell us what you believe about Harold, and Twitchell, and Marman and Matt Sharpe while you're at it.
PPS
Can fife cut the mustard or not? I think not based on his historical patterns of personal ontological and epistemological traits.

No, I am only kidding and having some fun - BUT seriously though, please do teach by example here.
Show eztnab and anyone else what you mean by " how to question Eckankars ontology and epistemology. "
Show us a few examples of how you went about that yourself .... how you were led to change your " beliefs" about it and what eckankar is really all about in the end.
I presume you' re saying [claimng suggesting?] that can be done without any reference back to lifting teachings ideas and verbatim texts from others, other religions, other gurus, other cultists, other spiritualists, other holy books, other novelists and fiction writers.
and for some reason etznab discussing [endlessly?] eckankar history and plagiarism issues .... plus I am assuming you believe Eckankar is totally fraudulent and not what ot presents itself to be or for students to be able to achieve what twitchell klemp etc claimed it can ... right? i am not sure, please clarify correct me if i'm putting words in your mouth here fife .... i think this is what youve said before more or less, but i could be wrong, if so what is the truth of what you believe and why is that so .... thanks
cheers

Hey,Sean. Cheers.
Seaniekins? :-)
Anyway. Wow. You don't ask for much do you? I was only suggesting something else Etznab could do to question Eckankar. But he doesn't want to question Eckankar. He wants to save it.
Mind is a continuous cycle that people don't know how to process. So they'll listen to any crap someone comes up with.
Let me just tell you what I've found it all comes down to and you can put that down to "it's all crap" or whatever class you wish.
All ontology and all epistemology are based on the psychic perceptions of volume (ontology) and structure (epistemology).
The psychic perceptions of
IMAGINATION
FORM WITHOUT FORM
INNER WILL
RELATIONS WITH OTHERS
RATIONAL MIND
EMOTIONS WITH RESPECT TO SELF.
PHYSICAL SENSATION
for volume (ontology)
and
COLLECTIVE KARMA
KARMA OF THE TIME
KARMA OF A PLACE
KARMA OF A FAMILY
KARMA OF AN INDIVIDUAL
for structure (epistemology)
And it's horses for courses all the way.
There'll always be people who are gullible enough to go for something like the "wow" of Eckankar. Or Sant Mat, Radha Soami, Vedanta, Sikhism, Sufism, Scientology, science fiction, or whatever they need to fill the hole in their head that they have.
Do you really want me to tell you how to be an atheist, and why? You really don't want that. No one does.
It's all one's organic self and its illusion. And everyone does what they do with it. Are there better ways and worse? Of course. But everyone has to pick and process. There's no one way that's right for everyone.
ID
SUPEREGO
EGO
THE EXPERIENCES OF GRATIFICATION
THE SLEEP CYCLE
No one gives a shit? Fuck it. It's all on their heads , then.

Wait. The Tao isn’t the way? 🤷🏻‍♂️

T.T.
Sure. It's mind realization - the sleep cycle.
1. non REM sleep stage one
2. non REM sleep stage 2
3. non REM sleep stage 3
4. REM sleep
Over and over. Always running. In the background. 24 and 7.

All the advice is: stop processing with it, stop thinking. Just let it run in a circle. But I don't know how good that advice is.

Henosis Sage

2022-04-19 02:21:05 UTC

That's curious "fife" (sic) because I have never seen you address Eckankar with ontology and epistemology lines or in regard to justifying your own past and current beliefs here ... and it's been years and years so far.
What are your beliefs of Eckankar, history and TRUTH mate???? Besides you opine eztnab is a pain in your neck - period - literally pissing you off for years possibly for decades now?
Would you be so kind to show him and I and future readers here how to question Eckankar and it's ontology and epistemology and describe your own beliefs are of Eckankar and what have you decided is the truth about all this?
Come stop hiding behind your non-stop tedious mindless criticisms and putdowns of Etznab and spill your beans... as in TELL THE TRUTH YOURSELF FOR ONCE ON A.R.E. hey!
I still believe in miracles .... SO STOP PISSING EVERYONE OFF FOR ONCE ... and THANKS IN ADVANCE ..... Seaniekins
*twinkle*
PS
You might go the whole hog and tell us what you believe about Harold, and Twitchell, and Marman and Matt Sharpe while you're at it.
PPS
Can fife cut the mustard or not? I think not based on his historical patterns of personal ontological and epistemological traits.

No, I am only kidding and having some fun - BUT seriously though, please do teach by example here.
Show eztnab and anyone else what you mean by " how to question Eckankars ontology and epistemology. "
Show us a few examples of how you went about that yourself .... how you were led to change your " beliefs" about it and what eckankar is really all about in the end.
I presume you' re saying [claimng suggesting?] that can be done without any reference back to lifting teachings ideas and verbatim texts from others, other religions, other gurus, other cultists, other spiritualists, other holy books, other novelists and fiction writers.
and for some reason etznab discussing [endlessly?] eckankar history and plagiarism issues .... plus I am assuming you believe Eckankar is totally fraudulent and not what ot presents itself to be or for students to be able to achieve what twitchell klemp etc claimed it can ... right? i am not sure, please clarify correct me if i'm putting words in your mouth here fife .... i think this is what youve said before more or less, but i could be wrong, if so what is the truth of what you believe and why is that so .... thanks
cheers

Hey,Sean. Cheers.
Seaniekins? :-)
Anyway. Wow. You don't ask for much do you? I was only suggesting something else Etznab could do to question Eckankar. But he doesn't want to question Eckankar. He wants to save it.
Mind is a continuous cycle that people don't know how to process. So they'll listen to any crap someone comes up with.
Let me just tell you what I've found it all comes down to and you can put that down to "it's all crap" or whatever class you wish.
All ontology and all epistemology are based on the psychic perceptions of volume (ontology) and structure (epistemology).
The psychic perceptions of
IMAGINATION
FORM WITHOUT FORM
INNER WILL
RELATIONS WITH OTHERS
RATIONAL MIND
EMOTIONS WITH RESPECT TO SELF.
PHYSICAL SENSATION
for volume (ontology)
and
COLLECTIVE KARMA
KARMA OF THE TIME
KARMA OF A PLACE
KARMA OF A FAMILY
KARMA OF AN INDIVIDUAL
for structure (epistemology)
And it's horses for courses all the way.
There'll always be people who are gullible enough to go for something like the "wow" of Eckankar. Or Sant Mat, Radha Soami, Vedanta, Sikhism, Sufism, Scientology, science fiction, or whatever they need to fill the hole in their head that they have.
Do you really want me to tell you how to be an atheist, and why? You really don't want that. No one does.
It's all one's organic self and its illusion. And everyone does what they do with it. Are there better ways and worse? Of course. But everyone has to pick and process. There's no one way that's right for everyone.
ID
SUPEREGO
EGO
THE EXPERIENCES OF GRATIFICATION
THE SLEEP CYCLE
No one gives a shit? Fuck it. It's all on their heads , then.

Wait. The Tao isn’t the way? 🤷🏻‍♂️

T.T.
Sure. It's mind realization - the sleep cycle.
1. non REM sleep stage one
2. non REM sleep stage 2
3. non REM sleep stage 3
4. REM sleep
Over and over. Always running. In the background. 24 and 7.
All the advice is: stop processing with it, stop thinking. Just let it run in a circle. But I don't know how good that advice is.

now you're replying to a query about the tao with gibberish about rem sleep.

and you accuse me etz of being crazy? seriously? oh boy.

F. "I was only suggesting something else Etznab could do to question Eckankar. "

yet you cannot describe how to it yourself. you're twisting a put down into being disingenuous and lying about it.

F. "But he doesn't want to question Eckankar. "

That Defies 2 decades of hard evidence of etznab questioning eckankar and eckists. Another example of you mimicking kinpa sop.

F. "Mind is a continuous cycle that people don't know how to process. So they'll listen to any crap someone comes up with. "

More mindless gobbledygook. iow it's bs walking.

F. "Let me just tell you what I've found ....."

Refusing to answer the actual question. cannot show how to do what he himself suggested.

F. "All ontology and all epistemology are based on the psychic perceptions of volume (ontology) and structure (epistemology). "

Bullshit! More mindless gobbledygook. iow it's a cop out. It's Lying. And exposes the intentional desire to be abusive and insulting and disingenuous and manipulative by repeatedly lying.

F. The Lists of "meaningless words" reappear yet again .....

Your words and commentary speak for themself.

Henosis Sage

2022-04-19 05:19:50 UTC

That's curious "fife" (sic) because I have never seen you address Eckankar with ontology and epistemology lines or in regard to justifying your own past and current beliefs here ... and it's been years and years so far.
What are your beliefs of Eckankar, history and TRUTH mate???? Besides you opine eztnab is a pain in your neck - period - literally pissing you off for years possibly for decades now?
Would you be so kind to show him and I and future readers here how to question Eckankar and it's ontology and epistemology and describe your own beliefs are of Eckankar and what have you decided is the truth about all this?
Come stop hiding behind your non-stop tedious mindless criticisms and putdowns of Etznab and spill your beans... as in TELL THE TRUTH YOURSELF FOR ONCE ON A.R.E. hey!
I still believe in miracles .... SO STOP PISSING EVERYONE OFF FOR ONCE ... and THANKS IN ADVANCE ..... Seaniekins
*twinkle*
PS
You might go the whole hog and tell us what you believe about Harold, and Twitchell, and Marman and Matt Sharpe while you're at it.
PPS
Can fife cut the mustard or not? I think not based on his historical patterns of personal ontological and epistemological traits.

No, I am only kidding and having some fun - BUT seriously though, please do teach by example here.
Show eztnab and anyone else what you mean by " how to question Eckankars ontology and epistemology. "
Show us a few examples of how you went about that yourself .... how you were led to change your " beliefs" about it and what eckankar is really all about in the end.
I presume you' re saying [claimng suggesting?] that can be done without any reference back to lifting teachings ideas and verbatim texts from others, other religions, other gurus, other cultists, other spiritualists, other holy books, other novelists and fiction writers.
and for some reason etznab discussing [endlessly?] eckankar history and plagiarism issues .... plus I am assuming you believe Eckankar is totally fraudulent and not what ot presents itself to be or for students to be able to achieve what twitchell klemp etc claimed it can ... right? i am not sure, please clarify correct me if i'm putting words in your mouth here fife .... i think this is what youve said before more or less, but i could be wrong, if so what is the truth of what you believe and why is that so .... thanks
cheers

Hey,Sean. Cheers.
Seaniekins? :-)
Anyway. Wow. You don't ask for much do you? I was only suggesting something else Etznab could do to question Eckankar. But he doesn't want to question Eckankar. He wants to save it.
Mind is a continuous cycle that people don't know how to process. So they'll listen to any crap someone comes up with.
Let me just tell you what I've found it all comes down to and you can put that down to "it's all crap" or whatever class you wish.
All ontology and all epistemology are based on the psychic perceptions of volume (ontology) and structure (epistemology).
The psychic perceptions of
IMAGINATION
FORM WITHOUT FORM
INNER WILL
RELATIONS WITH OTHERS
RATIONAL MIND
EMOTIONS WITH RESPECT TO SELF.
PHYSICAL SENSATION
for volume (ontology)
and
COLLECTIVE KARMA
KARMA OF THE TIME
KARMA OF A PLACE
KARMA OF A FAMILY
KARMA OF AN INDIVIDUAL
for structure (epistemology)
And it's horses for courses all the way.
There'll always be people who are gullible enough to go for something like the "wow" of Eckankar. Or Sant Mat, Radha Soami, Vedanta, Sikhism, Sufism, Scientology, science fiction, or whatever they need to fill the hole in their head that they have.
Do you really want me to tell you how to be an atheist, and why? You really don't want that. No one does.
It's all one's organic self and its illusion. And everyone does what they do with it. Are there better ways and worse? Of course. But everyone has to pick and process. There's no one way that's right for everyone.
ID
SUPEREGO
EGO
THE EXPERIENCES OF GRATIFICATION
THE SLEEP CYCLE
No one gives a shit? Fuck it. It's all on their heads , then.

Wait. The Tao isn’t the way? 🤷🏻‍♂️

T.T.
Sure. It's mind realization - the sleep cycle.
1. non REM sleep stage one
2. non REM sleep stage 2
3. non REM sleep stage 3
4. REM sleep
Over and over. Always running. In the background. 24 and 7.
All the advice is: stop processing with it, stop thinking. Just let it run in a circle. But I don't know how good that advice is.

now you're replying to a query about the tao with gibberish about rem sleep.
and you accuse me etz of being crazy? seriously? oh boy.
F. "I was only suggesting something else Etznab could do to question Eckankar. "
yet you cannot describe how to it yourself. you're twisting a put down into being disingenuous and lying about it.
F. "But he doesn't want to question Eckankar. "
That Defies 2 decades of hard evidence of etznab questioning eckankar and eckists. Another example of you mimicking kinpa sop.
F. "Mind is a continuous cycle that people don't know how to process. So they'll listen to any crap someone comes up with. "
More mindless gobbledygook. iow it's bs walking.
F. "Let me just tell you what I've found ....."
Refusing to answer the actual question. cannot show how to do what he himself suggested.
F. "All ontology and all epistemology are based on the psychic perceptions of volume (ontology) and structure (epistemology). "
Bullshit! More mindless gobbledygook. iow it's a cop out. It's Lying. And exposes the intentional desire to be abusive and insulting and disingenuous and manipulative by repeatedly lying.
F. The Lists of "meaningless words" reappear yet again .....
Your words and commentary speak for themself.

Was all Greek to me.
Kind of a rhetorical question. 🤡

I know what you mean TT.

He may as well be speaking in Tongues.

the following is kind of related ..... as a example/meme explanation/reasons of what's happening here.

The story of Babel is the best metaphor I have found for what happened to America in the 2010s, and for the fractured country [& the WORLD] we now inhabit. Something went terribly wrong, very suddenly. [FACEBOOK / smartphones started 2007->] We are disoriented, unable to speak the same language or recognize the same truth. We are cut off from one another and from the past.

It’s been clear for quite a while now that red America and blue America [& the WORLD] are becoming like two different countries claiming the same territory, with two different versions of the Constitution, economics, and American history. But Babel is not a story about tribalism; it’s a story about the fragmentation of everything. It’s about the shattering of all that had seemed solid, the scattering of people who had been a community. It’s a metaphor for what is happening not only between red and blue, but within the left and within the right, as well as within universities, companies, professional associations, museums, and even families.[& the WORLD]

Babel is a metaphor for what some forms of social media have done to nearly all of the groups and institutions most important to the country’s [& the WORLD] future—and to us as a people. How did this happen? And what does it portend for American life [& the WORLD] ?

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/

fife

2022-04-19 13:43:38 UTC

That's curious "fife" (sic) because I have never seen you address Eckankar with ontology and epistemology lines or in regard to justifying your own past and current beliefs here ... and it's been years and years so far.
What are your beliefs of Eckankar, history and TRUTH mate???? Besides you opine eztnab is a pain in your neck - period - literally pissing you off for years possibly for decades now?
Would you be so kind to show him and I and future readers here how to question Eckankar and it's ontology and epistemology and describe your own beliefs are of Eckankar and what have you decided is the truth about all this?
Come stop hiding behind your non-stop tedious mindless criticisms and putdowns of Etznab and spill your beans... as in TELL THE TRUTH YOURSELF FOR ONCE ON A.R.E. hey!
I still believe in miracles .... SO STOP PISSING EVERYONE OFF FOR ONCE ... and THANKS IN ADVANCE ..... Seaniekins
*twinkle*
PS
You might go the whole hog and tell us what you believe about Harold, and Twitchell, and Marman and Matt Sharpe while you're at it.
PPS
Can fife cut the mustard or not? I think not based on his historical patterns of personal ontological and epistemological traits.

No, I am only kidding and having some fun - BUT seriously though, please do teach by example here.
Show eztnab and anyone else what you mean by " how to question Eckankars ontology and epistemology. "
Show us a few examples of how you went about that yourself .... how you were led to change your " beliefs" about it and what eckankar is really all about in the end.
I presume you' re saying [claimng suggesting?] that can be done without any reference back to lifting teachings ideas and verbatim texts from others, other religions, other gurus, other cultists, other spiritualists, other holy books, other novelists and fiction writers.
and for some reason etznab discussing [endlessly?] eckankar history and plagiarism issues .... plus I am assuming you believe Eckankar is totally fraudulent and not what ot presents itself to be or for students to be able to achieve what twitchell klemp etc claimed it can ... right? i am not sure, please clarify correct me if i'm putting words in your mouth here fife .... i think this is what youve said before more or less, but i could be wrong, if so what is the truth of what you believe and why is that so .... thanks
cheers

Hey,Sean. Cheers.
Seaniekins? :-)
Anyway. Wow. You don't ask for much do you? I was only suggesting something else Etznab could do to question Eckankar. But he doesn't want to question Eckankar. He wants to save it.
Mind is a continuous cycle that people don't know how to process. So they'll listen to any crap someone comes up with.
Let me just tell you what I've found it all comes down to and you can put that down to "it's all crap" or whatever class you wish.
All ontology and all epistemology are based on the psychic perceptions of volume (ontology) and structure (epistemology).
The psychic perceptions of
IMAGINATION
FORM WITHOUT FORM
INNER WILL
RELATIONS WITH OTHERS
RATIONAL MIND
EMOTIONS WITH RESPECT TO SELF.
PHYSICAL SENSATION
for volume (ontology)
and
COLLECTIVE KARMA
KARMA OF THE TIME
KARMA OF A PLACE
KARMA OF A FAMILY
KARMA OF AN INDIVIDUAL
for structure (epistemology)
And it's horses for courses all the way.
There'll always be people who are gullible enough to go for something like the "wow" of Eckankar. Or Sant Mat, Radha Soami, Vedanta, Sikhism, Sufism, Scientology, science fiction, or whatever they need to fill the hole in their head that they have.
Do you really want me to tell you how to be an atheist, and why? You really don't want that. No one does.
It's all one's organic self and its illusion. And everyone does what they do with it. Are there better ways and worse? Of course. But everyone has to pick and process. There's no one way that's right for everyone.
ID
SUPEREGO
EGO
THE EXPERIENCES OF GRATIFICATION
THE SLEEP CYCLE
No one gives a shit? Fuck it. It's all on their heads , then.

Wait. The Tao isn’t the way? 🤷🏻‍♂️

T.T.
Sure. It's mind realization - the sleep cycle.
1. non REM sleep stage one
2. non REM sleep stage 2
3. non REM sleep stage 3
4. REM sleep
Over and over. Always running. In the background. 24 and 7.
All the advice is: stop processing with it, stop thinking. Just let it run in a circle. But I don't know how good that advice is.

now you're replying to a query about the tao with gibberish about rem sleep.
and you accuse me etz of being crazy? seriously? oh boy.
F. "I was only suggesting something else Etznab could do to question Eckankar. "
yet you cannot describe how to it yourself. you're twisting a put down into being disingenuous and lying about it.
F. "But he doesn't want to question Eckankar. "
That Defies 2 decades of hard evidence of etznab questioning eckankar and eckists. Another example of you mimicking kinpa sop.
F. "Mind is a continuous cycle that people don't know how to process. So they'll listen to any crap someone comes up with. "
More mindless gobbledygook. iow it's bs walking.
F. "Let me just tell you what I've found ....."
Refusing to answer the actual question. cannot show how to do what he himself suggested.
F. "All ontology and all epistemology are based on the psychic perceptions of volume (ontology) and structure (epistemology). "
Bullshit! More mindless gobbledygook. iow it's a cop out. It's Lying. And exposes the intentional desire to be abusive and insulting and disingenuous and manipulative by repeatedly lying.
F. The Lists of "meaningless words" reappear yet again .....
Your words and commentary speak for themself.

Was all Greek to me.
Kind of a rhetorical question. 🤡

I know what you mean TT.
He may as well be speaking in Tongues.
the following is kind of related ..... as a example/meme explanation/reasons of what's happening here.
The story of Babel is the best metaphor I have found for what happened to America in the 2010s, and for the fractured country [& the WORLD] we now inhabit. Something went terribly wrong, very suddenly. [FACEBOOK / smartphones started 2007->] We are disoriented, unable to speak the same language or recognize the same truth. We are cut off from one another and from the past.
It’s been clear for quite a while now that red America and blue America [& the WORLD] are becoming like two different countries claiming the same territory, with two different versions of the Constitution, economics, and American history. But Babel is not a story about tribalism; it’s a story about the fragmentation of everything. It’s about the shattering of all that had seemed solid, the scattering of people who had been a community. It’s a metaphor for what is happening not only between red and blue, but within the left and within the right, as well as within universities, companies, professional associations, museums, and even families.[& the WORLD]
Babel is a metaphor for what some forms of social media have done to nearly all of the groups and institutions most important to the country’s [& the WORLD] future—and to us as a people. How did this happen? And what does it portend for American life [& the WORLD] ?
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/

Sorry T.T. Thought you might have been making a rhetorical joke but wasn't sure.

Sean. I know it frustrates you when you can't put something down because you don't understand it. So you call it bullshit. That's not why I try to post nuanced ideas. Don't worry about it.
And why I post the way I do is that that I'm trying to post in an economy of words so it doesn't go on in some long wheeze. I'm not trying to post some big, splashy emotional drama. Others can do that with what's there if they want to.

What I was saying is that Tao is void. It's usually represented by an empty circle. It's actually the sleep cycle that's running 24 and 7 in us whether we're aware of it or not, not just when we close our eyes and go unconscious. It's the mind. Or perception (open mind). Either way you want to say it. An endless cycle that's a void. When we start using the four stages to process information, that's called thinking. The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao" (open mind).
So that's where all the "stop thinking", "stop processing", "experience the void" comes from.

Just an observation for consideration. No one's shoving it down anyone's throat. No biggie.

If it's a nuanced idea you hate it. If I have to explain it to you, you really hate it. Lucky me. :-/

Tisra Til

2022-04-19 15:59:10 UTC

That's curious "fife" (sic) because I have never seen you address Eckankar with ontology and epistemology lines or in regard to justifying your own past and current beliefs here ... and it's been years and years so far.
What are your beliefs of Eckankar, history and TRUTH mate???? Besides you opine eztnab is a pain in your neck - period - literally pissing you off for years possibly for decades now?
Would you be so kind to show him and I and future readers here how to question Eckankar and it's ontology and epistemology and describe your own beliefs are of Eckankar and what have you decided is the truth about all this?
Come stop hiding behind your non-stop tedious mindless criticisms and putdowns of Etznab and spill your beans... as in TELL THE TRUTH YOURSELF FOR ONCE ON A.R.E. hey!
I still believe in miracles .... SO STOP PISSING EVERYONE OFF FOR ONCE ... and THANKS IN ADVANCE ..... Seaniekins
*twinkle*
PS
You might go the whole hog and tell us what you believe about Harold, and Twitchell, and Marman and Matt Sharpe while you're at it.
PPS
Can fife cut the mustard or not? I think not based on his historical patterns of personal ontological and epistemological traits.

No, I am only kidding and having some fun - BUT seriously though, please do teach by example here.
Show eztnab and anyone else what you mean by " how to question Eckankars ontology and epistemology. "
Show us a few examples of how you went about that yourself .... how you were led to change your " beliefs" about it and what eckankar is really all about in the end.
I presume you' re saying [claimng suggesting?] that can be done without any reference back to lifting teachings ideas and verbatim texts from others, other religions, other gurus, other cultists, other spiritualists, other holy books, other novelists and fiction writers.
and for some reason etznab discussing [endlessly?] eckankar history and plagiarism issues .... plus I am assuming you believe Eckankar is totally fraudulent and not what ot presents itself to be or for students to be able to achieve what twitchell klemp etc claimed it can ... right? i am not sure, please clarify correct me if i'm putting words in your mouth here fife .... i think this is what youve said before more or less, but i could be wrong, if so what is the truth of what you believe and why is that so .... thanks
cheers

Hey,Sean. Cheers.
Seaniekins? :-)
Anyway. Wow. You don't ask for much do you? I was only suggesting something else Etznab could do to question Eckankar. But he doesn't want to question Eckankar. He wants to save it.
Mind is a continuous cycle that people don't know how to process. So they'll listen to any crap someone comes up with.
Let me just tell you what I've found it all comes down to and you can put that down to "it's all crap" or whatever class you wish.
All ontology and all epistemology are based on the psychic perceptions of volume (ontology) and structure (epistemology).
The psychic perceptions of
IMAGINATION
FORM WITHOUT FORM
INNER WILL
RELATIONS WITH OTHERS
RATIONAL MIND
EMOTIONS WITH RESPECT TO SELF.
PHYSICAL SENSATION
for volume (ontology)
and
COLLECTIVE KARMA
KARMA OF THE TIME
KARMA OF A PLACE
KARMA OF A FAMILY
KARMA OF AN INDIVIDUAL
for structure (epistemology)
And it's horses for courses all the way.
There'll always be people who are gullible enough to go for something like the "wow" of Eckankar. Or Sant Mat, Radha Soami, Vedanta, Sikhism, Sufism, Scientology, science fiction, or whatever they need to fill the hole in their head that they have.
Do you really want me to tell you how to be an atheist, and why? You really don't want that. No one does.
It's all one's organic self and its illusion. And everyone does what they do with it. Are there better ways and worse? Of course. But everyone has to pick and process. There's no one way that's right for everyone.
ID
SUPEREGO
EGO
THE EXPERIENCES OF GRATIFICATION
THE SLEEP CYCLE
No one gives a shit? Fuck it. It's all on their heads , then.

Wait. The Tao isn’t the way? 🤷🏻‍♂️

T.T.
Sure. It's mind realization - the sleep cycle.
1. non REM sleep stage one
2. non REM sleep stage 2
3. non REM sleep stage 3
4. REM sleep
Over and over. Always running. In the background. 24 and 7.
All the advice is: stop processing with it, stop thinking. Just let it run in a circle. But I don't know how good that advice is.

now you're replying to a query about the tao with gibberish about rem sleep.
and you accuse me etz of being crazy? seriously? oh boy.
F. "I was only suggesting something else Etznab could do to question Eckankar. "
yet you cannot describe how to it yourself. you're twisting a put down into being disingenuous and lying about it.
F. "But he doesn't want to question Eckankar. "
That Defies 2 decades of hard evidence of etznab questioning eckankar and eckists. Another example of you mimicking kinpa sop.
F. "Mind is a continuous cycle that people don't know how to process. So they'll listen to any crap someone comes up with. "
More mindless gobbledygook. iow it's bs walking.
F. "Let me just tell you what I've found ....."
Refusing to answer the actual question. cannot show how to do what he himself suggested.
F. "All ontology and all epistemology are based on the psychic perceptions of volume (ontology) and structure (epistemology). "
Bullshit! More mindless gobbledygook. iow it's a cop out. It's Lying. And exposes the intentional desire to be abusive and insulting and disingenuous and manipulative by repeatedly lying.
F. The Lists of "meaningless words" reappear yet again .....
Your words and commentary speak for themself.

Was all Greek to me.
Kind of a rhetorical question. 🤡

I know what you mean TT.
He may as well be speaking in Tongues.
the following is kind of related ..... as a example/meme explanation/reasons of what's happening here.
The story of Babel is the best metaphor I have found for what happened to America in the 2010s, and for the fractured country [& the WORLD] we now inhabit. Something went terribly wrong, very suddenly. [FACEBOOK / smartphones started 2007->] We are disoriented, unable to speak the same language or recognize the same truth. We are cut off from one another and from the past.
It’s been clear for quite a while now that red America and blue America [& the WORLD] are becoming like two different countries claiming the same territory, with two different versions of the Constitution, economics, and American history. But Babel is not a story about tribalism; it’s a story about the fragmentation of everything. It’s about the shattering of all that had seemed solid, the scattering of people who had been a community. It’s a metaphor for what is happening not only between red and blue, but within the left and within the right, as well as within universities, companies, professional associations, museums, and even families.[& the WORLD]
Babel is a metaphor for what some forms of social media have done to nearly all of the groups and institutions most important to the country’s [& the WORLD] future—and to us as a people. How did this happen? And what does it portend for American life [& the WORLD] ?
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/

Sorry T.T. Thought you might have been making a rhetorical joke but wasn't sure.
Sean. I know it frustrates you when you can't put something down because you don't understand it. So you call it bullshit. That's not why I try to post nuanced ideas. Don't worry about it.
And why I post the way I do is that that I'm trying to post in an economy of words so it doesn't go on in some long wheeze. I'm not trying to post some big, splashy emotional drama. Others can do that with what's there if they want to.
What I was saying is that Tao is void. It's usually represented by an empty circle. It's actually the sleep cycle that's running 24 and 7 in us whether we're aware of it or not, not just when we close our eyes and go unconscious. It's the mind. Or perception (open mind). Either way you want to say it. An endless cycle that's a void. When we start using the four stages to process information, that's called thinking. The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao" (open mind).
So that's where all the "stop thinking", "stop processing", "experience the void" comes from.
Just an observation for consideration. No one's shoving it down anyone's throat. No biggie.
If it's a nuanced idea you hate it. If I have to explain it to you, you really hate it. Lucky me. :-/

I was being a little facetious. The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao, Way or oneness. The zero-void that becomes the duality of yin and yang. And out of that duality comes the ten thousand things; I.e. consciousness and forms.

Just didn’t get what your comments had to do with that. Was Greek to me. 🤦🏻

fife

2022-04-19 22:24:27 UTC

That's curious "fife" (sic) because I have never seen you address Eckankar with ontology and epistemology lines or in regard to justifying your own past and current beliefs here ... and it's been years and years so far.
What are your beliefs of Eckankar, history and TRUTH mate???? Besides you opine eztnab is a pain in your neck - period - literally pissing you off for years possibly for decades now?
Would you be so kind to show him and I and future readers here how to question Eckankar and it's ontology and epistemology and describe your own beliefs are of Eckankar and what have you decided is the truth about all this?
Come stop hiding behind your non-stop tedious mindless criticisms and putdowns of Etznab and spill your beans... as in TELL THE TRUTH YOURSELF FOR ONCE ON A.R.E. hey!
I still believe in miracles .... SO STOP PISSING EVERYONE OFF FOR ONCE ... and THANKS IN ADVANCE ..... Seaniekins
*twinkle*
PS
You might go the whole hog and tell us what you believe about Harold, and Twitchell, and Marman and Matt Sharpe while you're at it.
PPS
Can fife cut the mustard or not? I think not based on his historical patterns of personal ontological and epistemological traits.

No, I am only kidding and having some fun - BUT seriously though, please do teach by example here.
Show eztnab and anyone else what you mean by " how to question Eckankars ontology and epistemology. "
Show us a few examples of how you went about that yourself .... how you were led to change your " beliefs" about it and what eckankar is really all about in the end.
I presume you' re saying [claimng suggesting?] that can be done without any reference back to lifting teachings ideas and verbatim texts from others, other religions, other gurus, other cultists, other spiritualists, other holy books, other novelists and fiction writers.
and for some reason etznab discussing [endlessly?] eckankar history and plagiarism issues .... plus I am assuming you believe Eckankar is totally fraudulent and not what ot presents itself to be or for students to be able to achieve what twitchell klemp etc claimed it can ... right? i am not sure, please clarify correct me if i'm putting words in your mouth here fife .... i think this is what youve said before more or less, but i could be wrong, if so what is the truth of what you believe and why is that so .... thanks
cheers

Hey,Sean. Cheers.
Seaniekins? :-)
Anyway. Wow. You don't ask for much do you? I was only suggesting something else Etznab could do to question Eckankar. But he doesn't want to question Eckankar. He wants to save it.
Mind is a continuous cycle that people don't know how to process. So they'll listen to any crap someone comes up with.
Let me just tell you what I've found it all comes down to and you can put that down to "it's all crap" or whatever class you wish.
All ontology and all epistemology are based on the psychic perceptions of volume (ontology) and structure (epistemology).
The psychic perceptions of
IMAGINATION
FORM WITHOUT FORM
INNER WILL
RELATIONS WITH OTHERS
RATIONAL MIND
EMOTIONS WITH RESPECT TO SELF.
PHYSICAL SENSATION
for volume (ontology)
and
COLLECTIVE KARMA
KARMA OF THE TIME
KARMA OF A PLACE
KARMA OF A FAMILY
KARMA OF AN INDIVIDUAL
for structure (epistemology)
And it's horses for courses all the way.
There'll always be people who are gullible enough to go for something like the "wow" of Eckankar. Or Sant Mat, Radha Soami, Vedanta, Sikhism, Sufism, Scientology, science fiction, or whatever they need to fill the hole in their head that they have.
Do you really want me to tell you how to be an atheist, and why? You really don't want that. No one does.
It's all one's organic self and its illusion. And everyone does what they do with it. Are there better ways and worse? Of course. But everyone has to pick and process. There's no one way that's right for everyone.
ID
SUPEREGO
EGO
THE EXPERIENCES OF GRATIFICATION
THE SLEEP CYCLE
No one gives a shit? Fuck it. It's all on their heads , then.

Wait. The Tao isn’t the way? 🤷🏻‍♂️

T.T.
Sure. It's mind realization - the sleep cycle.
1. non REM sleep stage one
2. non REM sleep stage 2
3. non REM sleep stage 3
4. REM sleep
Over and over. Always running. In the background. 24 and 7.
All the advice is: stop processing with it, stop thinking. Just let it run in a circle. But I don't know how good that advice is.

now you're replying to a query about the tao with gibberish about rem sleep.
and you accuse me etz of being crazy? seriously? oh boy.
F. "I was only suggesting something else Etznab could do to question Eckankar. "
yet you cannot describe how to it yourself. you're twisting a put down into being disingenuous and lying about it.
F. "But he doesn't want to question Eckankar. "
That Defies 2 decades of hard evidence of etznab questioning eckankar and eckists. Another example of you mimicking kinpa sop.
F. "Mind is a continuous cycle that people don't know how to process. So they'll listen to any crap someone comes up with. "
More mindless gobbledygook. iow it's bs walking.
F. "Let me just tell you what I've found ....."
Refusing to answer the actual question. cannot show how to do what he himself suggested.
F. "All ontology and all epistemology are based on the psychic perceptions of volume (ontology) and structure (epistemology). "
Bullshit! More mindless gobbledygook. iow it's a cop out. It's Lying. And exposes the intentional desire to be abusive and insulting and disingenuous and manipulative by repeatedly lying.
F. The Lists of "meaningless words" reappear yet again .....
Your words and commentary speak for themself.

Was all Greek to me.
Kind of a rhetorical question. 🤡

I know what you mean TT.
He may as well be speaking in Tongues.
the following is kind of related ..... as a example/meme explanation/reasons of what's happening here.
The story of Babel is the best metaphor I have found for what happened to America in the 2010s, and for the fractured country [& the WORLD] we now inhabit. Something went terribly wrong, very suddenly. [FACEBOOK / smartphones started 2007->] We are disoriented, unable to speak the same language or recognize the same truth. We are cut off from one another and from the past.
It’s been clear for quite a while now that red America and blue America [& the WORLD] are becoming like two different countries claiming the same territory, with two different versions of the Constitution, economics, and American history. But Babel is not a story about tribalism; it’s a story about the fragmentation of everything. It’s about the shattering of all that had seemed solid, the scattering of people who had been a community. It’s a metaphor for what is happening not only between red and blue, but within the left and within the right, as well as within universities, companies, professional associations, museums, and even families.[& the WORLD]
Babel is a metaphor for what some forms of social media have done to nearly all of the groups and institutions most important to the country’s [& the WORLD] future—and to us as a people. How did this happen? And what does it portend for American life [& the WORLD] ?
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/

Sorry T.T. Thought you might have been making a rhetorical joke but wasn't sure.
Sean. I know it frustrates you when you can't put something down because you don't understand it. So you call it bullshit. That's not why I try to post nuanced ideas. Don't worry about it.
And why I post the way I do is that that I'm trying to post in an economy of words so it doesn't go on in some long wheeze. I'm not trying to post some big, splashy emotional drama. Others can do that with what's there if they want to.
What I was saying is that Tao is void. It's usually represented by an empty circle. It's actually the sleep cycle that's running 24 and 7 in us whether we're aware of it or not, not just when we close our eyes and go unconscious. It's the mind. Or perception (open mind). Either way you want to say it. An endless cycle that's a void. When we start using the four stages to process information, that's called thinking. The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao" (open mind).
So that's where all the "stop thinking", "stop processing", "experience the void" comes from.
Just an observation for consideration. No one's shoving it down anyone's throat. No biggie.
If it's a nuanced idea you hate it. If I have to explain it to you, you really hate it. Lucky me. :-/

I was being a little facetious. The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao, Way or oneness. The zero-void that becomes the duality of yin and yang. And out of that duality comes the ten thousand things; I.e. consciousness and forms.
Just didn’t get what your comments had to do with that. Was Greek to me. 🤦🏻

Hey T.T. No, it's all good. I was just being too brief because I didn't want to do a longer post and come off like I was pushing an idea. I love the way you put it. I guess that's the whole quote. It's a perfect description when you know exactly what it's talking about before the fact. Fifty years ago coming up on it, it was like: what... ??? the...???

Thumbs up.
I'd do an emoji but when Google finally forced "New Groups" with no option it didn't come through on my phone with all the radio buttons for posting. So, no phone, no emojis. :-(

Henosis Sage

2022-04-20 01:18:37 UTC

That's curious "fife" (sic) because I have never seen you address Eckankar with ontology and epistemology lines or in regard to justifying your own past and current beliefs here ... and it's been years and years so far.
What are your beliefs of Eckankar, history and TRUTH mate???? Besides you opine eztnab is a pain in your neck - period - literally pissing you off for years possibly for decades now?
Would you be so kind to show him and I and future readers here how to question Eckankar and it's ontology and epistemology and describe your own beliefs are of Eckankar and what have you decided is the truth about all this?
Come stop hiding behind your non-stop tedious mindless criticisms and putdowns of Etznab and spill your beans... as in TELL THE TRUTH YOURSELF FOR ONCE ON A.R.E. hey!
I still believe in miracles .... SO STOP PISSING EVERYONE OFF FOR ONCE ... and THANKS IN ADVANCE ..... Seaniekins
*twinkle*
PS
You might go the whole hog and tell us what you believe about Harold, and Twitchell, and Marman and Matt Sharpe while you're at it.
PPS
Can fife cut the mustard or not? I think not based on his historical patterns of personal ontological and epistemological traits.

No, I am only kidding and having some fun - BUT seriously though, please do teach by example here.
Show eztnab and anyone else what you mean by " how to question Eckankars ontology and epistemology. "
Show us a few examples of how you went about that yourself .... how you were led to change your " beliefs" about it and what eckankar is really all about in the end.
I presume you' re saying [claimng suggesting?] that can be done without any reference back to lifting teachings ideas and verbatim texts from others, other religions, other gurus, other cultists, other spiritualists, other holy books, other novelists and fiction writers.
and for some reason etznab discussing [endlessly?] eckankar history and plagiarism issues .... plus I am assuming you believe Eckankar is totally fraudulent and not what ot presents itself to be or for students to be able to achieve what twitchell klemp etc claimed it can ... right? i am not sure, please clarify correct me if i'm putting words in your mouth here fife .... i think this is what youve said before more or less, but i could be wrong, if so what is the truth of what you believe and why is that so .... thanks
cheers

Hey,Sean. Cheers.
Seaniekins? :-)
Anyway. Wow. You don't ask for much do you? I was only suggesting something else Etznab could do to question Eckankar. But he doesn't want to question Eckankar. He wants to save it.
Mind is a continuous cycle that people don't know how to process. So they'll listen to any crap someone comes up with.
Let me just tell you what I've found it all comes down to and you can put that down to "it's all crap" or whatever class you wish.
All ontology and all epistemology are based on the psychic perceptions of volume (ontology) and structure (epistemology).
The psychic perceptions of
IMAGINATION
FORM WITHOUT FORM
INNER WILL
RELATIONS WITH OTHERS
RATIONAL MIND
EMOTIONS WITH RESPECT TO SELF.
PHYSICAL SENSATION
for volume (ontology)
and
COLLECTIVE KARMA
KARMA OF THE TIME
KARMA OF A PLACE
KARMA OF A FAMILY
KARMA OF AN INDIVIDUAL
for structure (epistemology)
And it's horses for courses all the way.
There'll always be people who are gullible enough to go for something like the "wow" of Eckankar. Or Sant Mat, Radha Soami, Vedanta, Sikhism, Sufism, Scientology, science fiction, or whatever they need to fill the hole in their head that they have.
Do you really want me to tell you how to be an atheist, and why? You really don't want that. No one does.
It's all one's organic self and its illusion. And everyone does what they do with it. Are there better ways and worse? Of course. But everyone has to pick and process. There's no one way that's right for everyone.
ID
SUPEREGO
EGO
THE EXPERIENCES OF GRATIFICATION
THE SLEEP CYCLE
No one gives a shit? Fuck it. It's all on their heads , then.

Wait. The Tao isn’t the way? 🤷🏻‍♂️

T.T.
Sure. It's mind realization - the sleep cycle.
1. non REM sleep stage one
2. non REM sleep stage 2
3. non REM sleep stage 3
4. REM sleep
Over and over. Always running. In the background. 24 and 7.
All the advice is: stop processing with it, stop thinking. Just let it run in a circle. But I don't know how good that advice is.

now you're replying to a query about the tao with gibberish about rem sleep.
and you accuse me etz of being crazy? seriously? oh boy.
F. "I was only suggesting something else Etznab could do to question Eckankar. "
yet you cannot describe how to it yourself. you're twisting a put down into being disingenuous and lying about it.
F. "But he doesn't want to question Eckankar. "
That Defies 2 decades of hard evidence of etznab questioning eckankar and eckists. Another example of you mimicking kinpa sop.
F. "Mind is a continuous cycle that people don't know how to process. So they'll listen to any crap someone comes up with. "
More mindless gobbledygook. iow it's bs walking.
F. "Let me just tell you what I've found ....."
Refusing to answer the actual question. cannot show how to do what he himself suggested.
F. "All ontology and all epistemology are based on the psychic perceptions of volume (ontology) and structure (epistemology). "
Bullshit! More mindless gobbledygook. iow it's a cop out. It's Lying. And exposes the intentional desire to be abusive and insulting and disingenuous and manipulative by repeatedly lying.
F. The Lists of "meaningless words" reappear yet again .....
Your words and commentary speak for themself.

Was all Greek to me.
Kind of a rhetorical question. 🤡

I know what you mean TT.
He may as well be speaking in Tongues.
the following is kind of related ..... as a example/meme explanation/reasons of what's happening here.
The story of Babel is the best metaphor I have found for what happened to America in the 2010s, and for the fractured country [& the WORLD] we now inhabit. Something went terribly wrong, very suddenly. [FACEBOOK / smartphones started 2007->] We are disoriented, unable to speak the same language or recognize the same truth. We are cut off from one another and from the past.
It’s been clear for quite a while now that red America and blue America [& the WORLD] are becoming like two different countries claiming the same territory, with two different versions of the Constitution, economics, and American history. But Babel is not a story about tribalism; it’s a story about the fragmentation of everything. It’s about the shattering of all that had seemed solid, the scattering of people who had been a community. It’s a metaphor for what is happening not only between red and blue, but within the left and within the right, as well as within universities, companies, professional associations, museums, and even families.[& the WORLD]
Babel is a metaphor for what some forms of social media have done to nearly all of the groups and institutions most important to the country’s [& the WORLD] future—and to us as a people. How did this happen? And what does it portend for American life [& the WORLD] ?
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/

Sorry T.T. Thought you might have been making a rhetorical joke but wasn't sure.
Sean. I know it frustrates you when you can't put something down because you don't understand it. So you call it bullshit. That's not why I try to post nuanced ideas. Don't worry about it.
And why I post the way I do is that that I'm trying to post in an economy of words so it doesn't go on in some long wheeze. I'm not trying to post some big, splashy emotional drama. Others can do that with what's there if they want to.
What I was saying is that Tao is void. It's usually represented by an empty circle. It's actually the sleep cycle that's running 24 and 7 in us whether we're aware of it or not, not just when we close our eyes and go unconscious. It's the mind. Or perception (open mind). Either way you want to say it. An endless cycle that's a void. When we start using the four stages to process information, that's called thinking. The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao" (open mind).
So that's where all the "stop thinking", "stop processing", "experience the void" comes from.
Just an observation for consideration. No one's shoving it down anyone's throat. No biggie.
If it's a nuanced idea you hate it. If I have to explain it to you, you really hate it. Lucky me. :-/

I was being a little facetious. The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao, Way or oneness. The zero-void that becomes the duality of yin and yang. And out of that duality comes the ten thousand things; I.e. consciousness and forms.
Just didn’t get what your comments had to do with that. Was Greek to me. 🤦🏻

Hey T.T. No, it's all good. I was just being too brief because I didn't want to do a longer post and come off like I was pushing an idea. I love the way you put it. I guess that's the whole quote. It's a perfect description when you know exactly what it's talking about before the fact. Fifty years ago coming up on it, it was like: what... ??? the...???
Thumbs up.
I'd do an emoji but when Google finally forced "New Groups" with no option it didn't come through on my phone with all the radio buttons for posting. So, no phone, no emojis. :-(

Here is more feedback ....

" Just didn’t get what your comments had to do with that. Was Greek to me. "

It is YOU FIFE who does not make sense ... you are eternally vague ... and asked for more info clarification to explain something or give an EXAMPLE of what you meant you carry on like premadonna (so above it al) and an arrogant insulting presumptous twat.

" Fifty years ago coming up on it, it was like: what... ??? the...??? "

oh, so it's ok WHEN YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT SOMEONE ELSE IS SAYING OR WHAT THEY MEAN ..... you dick head.

FIFE does not want to " come off like I was pushing an idea. "

JESUS what is wrong with you??? .... that's what forums like this for, thats why people read them TO HEAR IDEAS !!!!!!

Henosis Sage

2022-04-20 01:09:57 UTC

That's curious "fife" (sic) because I have never seen you address Eckankar with ontology and epistemology lines or in regard to justifying your own past and current beliefs here ... and it's been years and years so far.
What are your beliefs of Eckankar, history and TRUTH mate???? Besides you opine eztnab is a pain in your neck - period - literally pissing you off for years possibly for decades now?
Would you be so kind to show him and I and future readers here how to question Eckankar and it's ontology and epistemology and describe your own beliefs are of Eckankar and what have you decided is the truth about all this?
Come stop hiding behind your non-stop tedious mindless criticisms and putdowns of Etznab and spill your beans... as in TELL THE TRUTH YOURSELF FOR ONCE ON A.R.E. hey!
I still believe in miracles .... SO STOP PISSING EVERYONE OFF FOR ONCE ... and THANKS IN ADVANCE ..... Seaniekins
*twinkle*
PS
You might go the whole hog and tell us what you believe about Harold, and Twitchell, and Marman and Matt Sharpe while you're at it.
PPS
Can fife cut the mustard or not? I think not based on his historical patterns of personal ontological and epistemological traits.

No, I am only kidding and having some fun - BUT seriously though, please do teach by example here.
Show eztnab and anyone else what you mean by " how to question Eckankars ontology and epistemology. "
Show us a few examples of how you went about that yourself .... how you were led to change your " beliefs" about it and what eckankar is really all about in the end.
I presume you' re saying [claimng suggesting?] that can be done without any reference back to lifting teachings ideas and verbatim texts from others, other religions, other gurus, other cultists, other spiritualists, other holy books, other novelists and fiction writers.
and for some reason etznab discussing [endlessly?] eckankar history and plagiarism issues .... plus I am assuming you believe Eckankar is totally fraudulent and not what ot presents itself to be or for students to be able to achieve what twitchell klemp etc claimed it can ... right? i am not sure, please clarify correct me if i'm putting words in your mouth here fife .... i think this is what youve said before more or less, but i could be wrong, if so what is the truth of what you believe and why is that so .... thanks
cheers

Hey,Sean. Cheers.
Seaniekins? :-)
Anyway. Wow. You don't ask for much do you? I was only suggesting something else Etznab could do to question Eckankar. But he doesn't want to question Eckankar. He wants to save it.
Mind is a continuous cycle that people don't know how to process. So they'll listen to any crap someone comes up with.
Let me just tell you what I've found it all comes down to and you can put that down to "it's all crap" or whatever class you wish.
All ontology and all epistemology are based on the psychic perceptions of volume (ontology) and structure (epistemology).
The psychic perceptions of
IMAGINATION
FORM WITHOUT FORM
INNER WILL
RELATIONS WITH OTHERS
RATIONAL MIND
EMOTIONS WITH RESPECT TO SELF.
PHYSICAL SENSATION
for volume (ontology)
and
COLLECTIVE KARMA
KARMA OF THE TIME
KARMA OF A PLACE
KARMA OF A FAMILY
KARMA OF AN INDIVIDUAL
for structure (epistemology)
And it's horses for courses all the way.
There'll always be people who are gullible enough to go for something like the "wow" of Eckankar. Or Sant Mat, Radha Soami, Vedanta, Sikhism, Sufism, Scientology, science fiction, or whatever they need to fill the hole in their head that they have.
Do you really want me to tell you how to be an atheist, and why? You really don't want that. No one does.
It's all one's organic self and its illusion. And everyone does what they do with it. Are there better ways and worse? Of course. But everyone has to pick and process. There's no one way that's right for everyone.
ID
SUPEREGO
EGO
THE EXPERIENCES OF GRATIFICATION
THE SLEEP CYCLE
No one gives a shit? Fuck it. It's all on their heads , then.

Wait. The Tao isn’t the way? 🤷🏻‍♂️

T.T.
Sure. It's mind realization - the sleep cycle.
1. non REM sleep stage one
2. non REM sleep stage 2
3. non REM sleep stage 3
4. REM sleep
Over and over. Always running. In the background. 24 and 7.
All the advice is: stop processing with it, stop thinking. Just let it run in a circle. But I don't know how good that advice is.

now you're replying to a query about the tao with gibberish about rem sleep.
and you accuse me etz of being crazy? seriously? oh boy.
F. "I was only suggesting something else Etznab could do to question Eckankar. "
yet you cannot describe how to it yourself. you're twisting a put down into being disingenuous and lying about it.
F. "But he doesn't want to question Eckankar. "
That Defies 2 decades of hard evidence of etznab questioning eckankar and eckists. Another example of you mimicking kinpa sop.
F. "Mind is a continuous cycle that people don't know how to process. So they'll listen to any crap someone comes up with. "
More mindless gobbledygook. iow it's bs walking.
F. "Let me just tell you what I've found ....."
Refusing to answer the actual question. cannot show how to do what he himself suggested.
F. "All ontology and all epistemology are based on the psychic perceptions of volume (ontology) and structure (epistemology). "
Bullshit! More mindless gobbledygook. iow it's a cop out. It's Lying. And exposes the intentional desire to be abusive and insulting and disingenuous and manipulative by repeatedly lying.
F. The Lists of "meaningless words" reappear yet again .....
Your words and commentary speak for themself.

Was all Greek to me.
Kind of a rhetorical question. 🤡

I know what you mean TT.
He may as well be speaking in Tongues.
the following is kind of related ..... as a example/meme explanation/reasons of what's happening here.
The story of Babel is the best metaphor I have found for what happened to America in the 2010s, and for the fractured country [& the WORLD] we now inhabit. Something went terribly wrong, very suddenly. [FACEBOOK / smartphones started 2007->] We are disoriented, unable to speak the same language or recognize the same truth. We are cut off from one another and from the past.
It’s been clear for quite a while now that red America and blue America [& the WORLD] are becoming like two different countries claiming the same territory, with two different versions of the Constitution, economics, and American history. But Babel is not a story about tribalism; it’s a story about the fragmentation of everything. It’s about the shattering of all that had seemed solid, the scattering of people who had been a community. It’s a metaphor for what is happening not only between red and blue, but within the left and within the right, as well as within universities, companies, professional associations, museums, and even families.[& the WORLD]
Babel is a metaphor for what some forms of social media have done to nearly all of the groups and institutions most important to the country’s [& the WORLD] future—and to us as a people. How did this happen? And what does it portend for American life [& the WORLD] ?
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/

Sorry T.T. Thought you might have been making a rhetorical joke but wasn't sure.
Sean. I know it frustrates you when you can't put something down because you don't understand it. So you call it bullshit. That's not why I try to post nuanced ideas. Don't worry about it.
And why I post the way I do is that that I'm trying to post in an economy of words so it doesn't go on in some long wheeze. I'm not trying to post some big, splashy emotional drama. Others can do that with what's there if they want to.
What I was saying is that Tao is void. It's usually represented by an empty circle. It's actually the sleep cycle that's running 24 and 7 in us whether we're aware of it or not, not just when we close our eyes and go unconscious. It's the mind. Or perception (open mind). Either way you want to say it. An endless cycle that's a void. When we start using the four stages to process information, that's called thinking. The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao" (open mind).
So that's where all the "stop thinking", "stop processing", "experience the void" comes from.
Just an observation for consideration. No one's shoving it down anyone's throat. No biggie.
If it's a nuanced idea you hate it. If I have to explain it to you, you really hate it. Lucky me. :-/

you hate it. ?

no i don't hate it .... stop fucking telling other people what they think know believe and why they say things.

you're behavior and unfounded faulty opinions of others here (and i would assume of everyone else in your life) is insulting self-serving presumptuous and idiotic.

This is what you CONSTANTLY ARE SHOVING down people's throats here.

Fucking stop it. Grow up.

If you want to say " is that Tao is void. " then say that .. Stop the BS .... the BULLSHIT is you not what ontology or anything else might be about.

Henosis Sage

2022-04-19 02:23:15 UTC