Post by Henosis SagePost by godzillaPost by MaplinPost by EtznabPost by godzillaHi all, greetings!
I recently heard that Sri Harold Klemp declared that he would be end of Eckankar lineage; the last Eckankar master ever.
Have you also heard this? I'm looking for a source and I can't find anything reliable so far -- is it just a rumor? Please help... thx!
Haven't heard that rumor. However, the dogma / mythology doesn't allow for a "last" Eckankar master.
If true, I just wonder if they realized the myths / fictions cannot continue. That sooner or later fact will replace fiction and when that happens there can't be an Eckankar master. Let alone some ancient Eckankar lineage from which Paul, Darwin and Harold descended.
Look what happened to A.T.O.M. They were supposed to have another master, but instead they have The Darwin Gross Trust.
I think even if Eckankar doesn't continue with a living master, I'd bet my bottom dollar someone will try to come forward and fill the position. It would have to be a "different" Eckankar though. One that respects the truth a lot more than so many fantasies based on pseudo history. So I doubt Marman will qualify.
BTW, Harold is getting a lot older judging by the last Mystic World. It showed a current picture.
It's funny how so many rumors and stories crop up. The good news is maybe there are less gullible people now and more who actually check sources. If Harold ends the lineage, it will be interesting to hear the story about that.
Yes, the ability to check sources has changed *everything* for many new
religions. Not least scientology... ERH died before the internet took
off and he seemingly couldn't conceive of what it would bring. Because
his drones have no choice but to follow scripture to the letter they are
ill-equipped for a world that has the tools to shatter lies. A connected
humanity is better empowered. I believe their power of individuals stems
from isolating them; think of how the actively sought to break the
family as a basic social unit.
Absolutely someone would doubtless come forward to fill the void that
will be left after the current living master. Isn't that always the
pattern? One of the many reasons America fascinates me is its strength
and depth of religion; it may be the world's strongest Christian
heartland. Someone I know, in a conversation about how many new
religions and straight-out cults arise in the USA, said it's because
church is a very strong institution there and vast swathes of the
population are used to the idea of attending some kind of mass.
Therefore it's easier to find people looking for a *new* order to follow.
I'm sorry to be OT again but whenever I think of CoS I can't help but
think of the fact that LRH may have founded Scientology and Dianetics,
but he didn't follow it himself. He was an occultist and scientology was
just a tool he created to use for some purpose of his. What absolutely
floors me though, is how successful it was at finding new victims. I
don't believe Australia has had the conditions for such an organism to
grow and flourish for many years; maybe once when Church was a stronger
tradition and institution, but so few people regularly attend
traditional services now that I don't believe there is the ground-swell
of potential people ready to find an alternative. Yes, the New Wave
Christian churches (Hillsong and other evangelist types) are strong...
honestly I find them a bit off, somehow. When I attend the stuffy,
old-fashioned and very traditional churches still to be found in the
central city, at least there I can feel I can worship sincerely and not
under the thumb of some demagogue.
Thanks Maplin!
PS CHER ALSO NOTICED MARMAN'S APPROACH WAY BACK .... WHEN HE WAS POSTING HERE .... CULTIVATING FOLLOWERS TO HIS FRAMING OF HIS CHOSEN NARRATIVE ...... HIS SPIRITUAL DIALOGUES PROJECT ... A SEMINAR WITH PATTI S AS SPEAKER ETC ETC ..... AND ALL HIS BOOKS AND TALKS SINCE HE RETIRED ...... ALL MAKES SENSE WHAT THE PLAN WAS , HAS BEEN ALL ALONG ...
ANYWAY .... PEOPLE NEED PIED PIPERS - SHRUG
Reminds me... I worked on a large Christmas carols event just before
last Christmas. It was run by an organisation of 3 or 4 of these
new-style Christian churches, and one pastor was in charge. His 2IC was
a real good singer and was the music director, but he and the pastor
both had the same problem. They were real little Hitlers! Petty but very
self-important, very big-fish-in-a-small pond. Clearly used to barking
orders (and all too comfortable with that for my liking) and NEVER being
questioned, and always having those order carried out toot sweet! All
the parishioners were either scared of these guys, or very conditioned
to obeying them. I just marvelled at it, how could there be so many
decent, and obviously intelligent people, willing to be eaten up like
that? These good folks were no sheep... they were generally
professionals, educated, they obviously came from middle-class
backgrounds simply judging by their clothes and accessories, and a lot
of them had the time and opportunities to become really good singers and
musicians. Why would people like that let themselves be so dominated?
I'm not talking about "giving up" to religion, but to these *people*!
Scientologists, by the same token, aren't sucked in by scientology, but
by its leaders; charismatic, dominant, singular individuals with the
power to lead those who need to be led.
I just don't understand this need to be someone's subject. I've always
got my hackles up at every institution and authority ever, from school,
to petty functionaries and minor officials and anyone outranking them,
governments and especially government departments. I never had a problem
with faith but the institution of the church automatically makes me
wary. So I have never been able to understand people who DO trust
institutions, and to me these people must be victims. Not gullible, and
certainly not fools, but to my mind it seems they've been had somehow.
Just like CoS making its members "hold the cans" (the e-meter), which is
surely nothing but mental conditioning, I assumed that all these folks
have allowed themselves to also be conditioned.
I'd be happy to find out I'm wrong and that it's really something else,
but what? That, I just don't get. Maybe it has to start from childhood,
or some other state of openness or vulnerability, like those people who
reach some kind of "rock bottom" in life and are really ready at that
moment for something that offers them hope and a path to something
better. That, I might understand... but is that not conditioning too?
Even so, this petty pastor's parishioners have jobs and they definitely
know about the world around them; surely they see everyone else doing
their best to be free in mind and thought. So *how* can they let someone
like this rude, arrogant, downright mean old turd dominate them, and
keep coming back for more? At the very least, why don't they switch
churches!!
This I just don't understand, but I'm well aware it happens, and happens
on a big scale. I suppose something similar is the reason why the
Twitchells and the like of this world can get away with what sounds like
such outrageous carry-on, and get away with it right in front of the
very people who should know better - their followers.
How many times have you heard someone completely contradict everything
Christ stood and died for and tried to teach, on the grounds that
they're a Christian?... "Oh we hate homos because we're Christian." "Get
out of my house! I raised you to be a Christian and you turn around and
do THAT!!! That's not what you were taught to believe! [read "how dare
you try and work it out for yourself"] You, young man, are SHUNNED!!"
What would Jesus of Nazareth have made of that? I thought he mostly
taught to love and forgive. There are plenty of churches of hate; I just
wonder by what measure are they "Christian"?
Am I just a heretic, because I don't blindly accept what I hear preached
at me? How far do we take that? Am I supposed to just have faith, not
only in God but in the words of the *priests*? I really don't think so.
I don't question the essence of my faith but I DO know, absolutely, that
humans are more than just fallible; matter of fact almost all of them
are basically completely full of it, and priests are human too! They try
to tell me to take the Bible word for word literally, NOT to interpret,
but I can't.
For example, Creation happening in only seven days *should* be
interpreted IMHO, not taken to mean exactly 7 x 24 x 60 x 60 seconds. 7
"days" must mean seven days *to God*, each of these days might be a
nanosecond or a billion years. We're mortal man! How can WE be fit to
know even or even recognise God's Word, even when we hear it? I think
that's the best part, the wonderful mystery: NOT knowing, not being ABLE
to know! And that we must ponder and pray and seek wisdom and guidance
to try to know what God intends for us, WITHOUT ever getting it spelled
out! We have to use our free will to do it!! Creation vs evolution?
Easy! God created an evolving universe!! Why not, He's God, He can
create however he pleases! Science vs religion? Pah, mention it not!
Science IS religion, it's divine revelation... science's job is to
reveal what God hath created! The most high-falutin', esoteric physics,
Darwinism, even the stuff now discredited and replaced with new theory,
that's absolutely all divine, all exactly as it should be, coz it's just
mortal man striving to understand God's work, to discover just *what* He
created! We will NEVER really "get it", we're not supposed to. There
will always be more we cannot know. Just as God willed it, I am sure of
that.
Ahem, sorry about that... but anyway. Why ever give up your own freedom
to contemplate, which is to seek enlightenment (even if we never find
it, we should strive), by simply being an empty vessel for another mere,
fallible, flawed mortal to fill with THEIR flaws? I mean the blinkered
priests and all bad religious leaders. DO question, DO judge, DO doubt,
and keep doing it. Our priests should *guide* us on this path, never
take over the journey for us. And I see crappy priests all the time. I
thought they were all on TV but you can find bad preachers all over, and
I'm sure that goes for imams, rabbis, monks, shamen and whatever
everybody else has too.
I also have a feeling that the really *good* ones don't end up in
charge, because they're too realistic and humble!!!