Integrity of organized religion

[Etznab]

Actual truth and history. About the world. A part of organized religion. People and places. Relations between cause and effect, laws of nature, etc.

Paul Twitchell, gathering words from various sources, compromised the real integrity of history in so many ways.

How did the current leader of Eckankar explain this "mess"? Good question. Let me go find the history. The actual quotes from an actually living person.

Get back to ya.

[fife]

If there were an absolute truth to measure everything against that would be great. But there isn't. That's why people are falling out all over the place once they get past the absolute lies.

[Etznab]

Post by fife
If there were an absolute truth to measure everything against that would be great. But there isn't. That's why people are falling out all over the place once they get past the absolute lies.

People are falling out once they get past the absolute lies?

[fife]

Yeah. Because they all have their own version of what they want.

[Etznab]

Post by fife
Yeah. Because they all have their own version of what they want.

They all? They all have their own version?

[fife]

Don't they?

[Etznab]

Post by fife
Don't they?

I don't know who your everyone is that you call they.

[Etznab]

Post by fife
Don't they?

You wrote about everyone. They all. They. Plus different versions.

I believe that many people share the same versions of things. If they did not it would be total chaos everywhere.

[fife]

OMG. You're such a pedantic, pragmatical, etymologist you lose all the history, all the meaning of any sentence or paragraph.

[fife]

Honestly, why do you do it? To show off how insufferable you are or can be? To pick a fight? Certainly it's not for sense, common sense meaning.

[Etznab]

Post by fife
Honestly, why do you do it? To show off how insufferable you are or can be? To pick a fight? Certainly it's not for sense, common sense meaning.

It's a discussion. You know discussion? Yes, Fife. This is a discussion group. Is it that you don't want discussion? Why would you ever say this was not a discussion group? Just want to have a different version of things?

Maybe this is a conversation group?

"Etznab. This is not a discussion group. a.r.e. is not a wholly owned and operated facsimile of Eckankar. It does not follow the rules prescribed for a discussion group, satsang class, roundtable, chat group, or any other formal, proformal or preformal construct.

"E. are you some kind of frustrated dominance freak who wants Eckankar and wants it badly? But wants it according to your rules and pernicious atonal deafness for all ontology and theology? Not to mention social and cultural incredulity, disappointment, and incapacity?

"If anything, a.r.e. is merely on-line conversation. Always has been, always will be. If people want to talk about something they will. If they don't they won't. And the conversation goes wherever it goes or just stops. And sometimes, even often, never starts."

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/TIRm-ybCSyM/xmcxvJNrAQAJ

FYI

"O.K. If there is truth in Eckankar, in all of its 32 facets, What truth is there? What good is there? I mean to say, What is good and true about Eckankar? How about this for a discussion topic?"

That came before your response about this not being a discussion group and about sometimes (according to you) "conversation ... even often, never starts."

But actually you had a response even before that one.

"What makes you think this is a discussion group? That anyone wants to discuss anything? That an outline, a lesson plan, is necessary and that's up to you?

"You're getting to sound like a frustrated Dean Edwards. Never worked out that way, never was going to, didn't, hasn't, never will."

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/TIRm-ybCSyM/GKyxGs5oAQAJ

Your words on that thread, IMO, were like a symptom that you display often here. Especially when commenting on things written by me. The active Eckist with the largest posting history in this group.

To refresh your memory:

"Fife. I think you're overreacting. It is a discussion group and Dean Edwards spelled out the intent. The fact that people acted the way they did, I doubt that is Dean's problem. And the fact that you write about me and my words / topics like you have ... that is not my problem either. That is you.

Quoting (from 1993) ...

"A new newsgroup, alt.religion.eckankar has been established. The charter is
posted below:

"alt.religion.eckankar A discussion about Eckankar, the religion of the Light
and Sound of God. [... .]"

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.meditation/ae79UEWUi2U/W-mXkGj4TDUJ

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/TIRm-ybCSyM/wtg762SDAQAJ

So if people are past the absolute lies, Why are they falling out all over the place? I want to discuss this. What did you mean by people falling out all over the place once they get past the absolute lies? Because, you think, they are looking for some absolute truth that there isn't.

I just wasn't sure what you meant by that. I've not seen any kind of writing like that before. Absolute truth? Absolute lies? WTF?

[fife]

Yep. That's my post. Do you want to discuss it or fight about it? Because a fight is different than a discussion. And people will or won't discuss something according to the way they feel about it.

And Dean Edwards has nothing to do with anything. Yesterday or today. He just started the group and it's gone any which-way forever.

And for your final question, people have different views of the same facts and truths.

[fife]

But they don't always want to discuss their views or someone else's. And that's their business. Not someone else's.

[fife]

😊 How many times does someone have to say this is not an "official" group started by, certified by, operated by, and for, Eckankar? You have the Eckankar Blog for that. But not one of your posts would get on that blog and you know it. Here, if someone wants to post about postage stamps, or fish, or whatever, they do. Are you going to pitch a fit about that? A pretty empty, self destructive, and stupid fit of anger then, that isn't it?

[Etznab]

Post by fife
😊 How many times does someone have to say this is not an "official" group started by, certified by, operated by, and for, Eckankar? You have the Eckankar Blog for that. But not one of your posts would get on that blog and you know it. Here, if someone wants to post about postage stamps, or fish, or whatever, they do. Are you going to pitch a fit about that? A pretty empty, self destructive, and stupid fit of anger then, that isn't it?

Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle ... you said discussion group. That it wasn't a discussion group. Now it looks like it's not an official Eckankar discussion group. Well, duh. Did anybody need that information? It's common sense.

You only qualified it that way (wiggle, wiggle) after I called you out for this

"What makes you think this is a discussion group? That anyone wants to discuss anything? [... .]"

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/TIRm-ybCSyM/GKyxGs5oAQAJ

[Etznab]

Post by fife
But they don't always want to discuss their views or someone else's. And that's their business. Not someone else's.

Fine. So maybe make your own thread topic, or go to another group where you do like the discussion topics.

[Etznab]

Post by Etznab

Post by fife
Yeah. Because they all have their own version of what they want.

They all? They all have their own version?

Are they also all living with the purple elephant and pigs with wings?

[Etznab]

Post by Etznab
Actual truth and history. About the world. A part of organized religion. People and places. Relations between cause and effect, laws of nature, etc.
Paul Twitchell, gathering words from various sources, compromised the real integrity of history in so many ways.
How did the current leader of Eckankar explain this "mess"? Good question. Let me go find the history. The actual quotes from an actually living person.
Get back to ya.

"Unscrambling the Pieces

"Paul loved his privacy. Early in his youth he was involved in a variety of activities, but he made it a point to obscure any facts associated with his life. In so doing, he left a trail so clouded that it's going to take our historians years to piece it together.

"It reminds me of the philosophy of the tax protestors. With taxes being so high today, they go to great lengths to conceal their income. [... .]"

https://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html

Blah, blah, blah. Yada. Yada. Yada.

Our historians? OUR HISTORIANS? Is that the same "our historians" like Doug Marman who worked personally with two living eck masters, spliced Paul Twitchell tapes together, heard recording of Paul Twitchell speaking as if in the voice of Rebazar Tarzs, looked at Paul Twitchell's personal library / files (what have you) and discussed the contents with Harold Klemp, the leader of Eckankar? Is that the same "our historians" like Doug Marman who wrote a book about Paul Twitchell and The Whole Truth as some form of POETRY? No. Tell me Harold wasn't referring to the "our historians" like Doug Marman who, after he heard about Sudar Singh being a married man who had a son that went to Oxford, asked to hear more and wanted to know the number of the audiotape.

I'm not certain about the context, or the reference to "our historians". Is that Eckankar historians? Or just historians in general?

Harold mentioned that Paul "... left a trail so clouded ... ." About his own biography. Yes. I agree. But it wasn't just a clouded trail about the biography of Paul Twitchell. I believe it fair to say there is also a clouded trail about the biography of Sudar Singh, Rebazar Tarzs and others. And when someone has the empirical evidence, the documents and the knowledge to shine a light of truth on a trail so clouded, is it any wonder why it would takes years to unscramble the pieces? How many years? Already it has been 38 years since Harold Klemp became the leader of Eckankar.

[fife]

Wiggle wiggle wiggle. You're such a twat. 😊

Yes and who gives a shite after over 50 years with all the proof anyone will ever need, now?

R.D. I guess.
But, whatever...

Paul Twitchell was a liar
Paul Twitchell was a fraud
Paul Twitchell was a plagiarist
Do you have a problem with the veracity of those three sentences?

[Etznab]

General statements. Can you be more specific? Like, for what reasons? Who conspired with him? Any lawyers? Etc.

[fife]

Well, you know, I'd discuss this but I really don't care. All this has been raked over so long and forever and what's to say that hasn't been said before so many times already? If I respond, I'm just letting myself get dragged into something that I really don't want to respond to in the first place that's got no where to go but where it's already been many times before. It's an issue, yeah, but it's a non issue because it's all been covered many times before and there's nothing for anyone to say or reflect on that they, and everyone else, has already said and reflected on many times before. And that's not really life. Life moves on, new things come up and new things develop and there's always something else to talk about. I'm kind of done with "hey everybody, lets talk about Rebazar Tarzs" or Paul Twitchell, or plagiarism, or anger, a very hard core of anger, about truth. Oh, and history. And I notice that no one else has anything more to say or new to say either. Or responds. Or often has any response or anything more to say. I like history, I really do. But I can't and don't want to talk about it every day. There are other things. And history isn't what's happening today. And everyone has to deal with today. And tomorrow and can't live all the time in yesterday and what might have been. Sometimes, yeah, sure. But not all the time, every day, over and over again. Because everyone is living in the present and working out the present because the future is going to happen to. So if everything is the past, something's deeply wrong with that. Because today, everything's happening today and if no one's learned from the past and moved on from that to deal with - whatever, something's wrong with that too. Nobody really lives that way because it simply doesn't work.

[Etznab]

If I were to listen an Eckankar apologist lawyer, well I think that is exactly what they might say.

Wow. How does that happen? I mean, How can you write like that? It must be a strange coincidence.

Think about it Fife. Look at what you wrote and then think about what an apologist would (at this point) say.

Is it only me that sees this?

[fife]

I DON'T CARE. And you're an idiot if you think I'm an apologist. How in the universe can you think that? This is just you starting an argument on a completely whacked premise because that's what you do.

[Etznab]

Thanks. Glad to get your feedback and response. We just don't always agree. Maybe this will work itself out over time.

[Etznab]

Post by fife
Wiggle wiggle wiggle. You're such a twat. 😊
Yes and who gives a shite after over 50 years with all the proof anyone will ever need, now?
R.D. I guess.
But, whatever...
Paul Twitchell was a liar
Paul Twitchell was a fraud
Paul Twitchell was a plagiarist
Do you have a problem with the veracity of those three sentences?

Shite? That means "shit". Right?

Like Kinpa was full of that too. I mean, wrote about it a lot.

[Opus-Dei]

Post by fife
Wiggle wiggle wiggle. You're such a twat. 😊
Yes and who gives a shite after over 50 years with all the proof anyone will ever need, now?
R.D. I guess.
But, whatever...
Paul Twitchell was a liar
Paul Twitchell was a fraud
Paul Twitchell was a plagiarist
Do you have a problem with the veracity of those three sentences?

---------------------------------------------------------------
Using the spelling 'shite' proved your point, Fife.
D. Richard Devoli went for it.
It's the job of Etznab to be god's mirror EckaNar members quietly use to pick their blackheads aka his dogma.
It's haha Sage Arundell's to make sure Eckanar viewers have the correct viewing angle into the deepest most inner parts of their dermis for greater self-understanding.
From now on, just tell them if you want, to never miss dotting their yeses.

[Henosis Sage]

On Saturday, 19 March 2022 at 08:18:42 UTC+11, Opus-Dei wrote:

FUCK OFF YOU PSYCHO FUCK HEAD

[Henosis Sage]

On Saturday, 19 March 2022 at 08:18:42 UTC+11, Opus-Dei wrote:
YES POOR OLD DEMENTED PSYCHO JOHN CLARK OF A.R.E. TROLLING INSANITY FAME ... JOHN RYAN CLARK OF SEATTLE WASHINGTON DC .... COMMUNITY COLLEGE GRADUATE ... EX-ECKIST .... MORON AND DISENGENUOUS LIAR AND FAKE OF THE HIGHEST ORDER

OBSESSIVE ANTI-CATHOLIC INTERNET ABUSER AND PARANOID DELUSIONAL CRAZY MAN .... THAT'S OUR RESIDENT NUTCASE ALRIGHT .... JOHN CLARK FRUITCAKE AND ABUSIVE TROLL GOING ON 3 DECADES NOW ....

YES YOU CLARK ... FUCK OFF YOU DISGUSTING FUCK HEAD ....

[Henosis Sage]

YES POOR OLD DEMENTED PSYCHO JOHN CLARK OF A.R.E. TROLLING INSANITY FAME ... JOHN RYAN CLARK OF SEATTLE WASHINGTON DC .... COMMUNITY COLLEGE GRADUATE ... EX-ECKIST .... MORON AND DISENGENUOUS LIAR AND FAKE OF THE HIGHEST ORDER
OBSESSIVE ANTI-CATHOLIC INTERNET ABUSER AND PARANOID DELUSIONAL CRAZY MAN .... THAT'S OUR RESIDENT NUTCASE ALRIGHT .... JOHN CLARK FRUITCAKE AND ABUSIVE TROLL GOING ON 3 DECADES NOW ....
YES YOU CLARK ... FUCK OFF YOU DISGUSTING FUCK HEAD ....

YEAH these responses are called having absolutely zero respect for lying lowlife abusive trolls such as john fucking clark !!!