It's not just plagiarism

[Etznab]

It's not just plagiarism when copied words are credited to "real" living masters said to inhabit an ancient lineage to which the plagiarizer / compiler belongs. IMHO.

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by Etznab
It's not just plagiarism when copied words are credited to "real" living masters said to inhabit an ancient lineage to which the plagiarizer / compiler belongs. IMHO.

Do the Spiritual Exercises of ECK. They're more interesting than this plagiarism business and will cure this habit for sure.

[Etznab]

I have argued that Rebazar Tarzs is not a plagiarist. That he didn't speak all of those copied passages.

What do you think?

[Etznab]

Post by Etznab
I have argued that Rebazar Tarzs is not a plagiarist. That he didn't speak all of those copied passages.
What do you think?

So it's not about plagiarism. It's about Eck Masters and if they are real. One can be specific about this. Look at the words written by and / or supposedly spoken (dictated, etc.) by the masters. One can check out the teachings from within too.

When Henosis Sage and I looked at the words and checked out the teachings from within, many times we arrived at the same findings without first communicating about them on the outer! Only later, after corresponding on the outer, did we realize the synchronicity.

The inner, spiritual exercises, etc. were very much a part of what was found. So when Rob is harping about spiritual exercises, I think he can speak for himself. Maybe he can even share his findings here? Join the discussions at a.r.e. where we all have the power to be sympathetic and civil.

[Henosis Sage]

Post by Etznab

Post by Etznab
I have argued that Rebazar Tarzs is not a plagiarist. That he didn't speak all of those copied passages.
What do you think?

So it's not about plagiarism. It's about Eck Masters and if they are real. One can be specific about this. Look at the words written by and / or supposedly spoken (dictated, etc.) by the masters. One can check out the teachings from within too.
When Henosis Sage and I looked at the words and checked out the teachings from within, many times we arrived at the same findings without first communicating about them on the outer! Only later, after corresponding on the outer, did we realize the synchronicity.
The inner, spiritual exercises, etc. were very much a part of what was found. So when Rob is harping about spiritual exercises, I think he can speak for himself. Maybe he can even share his findings here? Join the discussions at a.r.e. where we all have the power to be sympathetic and civil.

aka "the Spiritual Exercises of ECK." worked for me too!!!

(smile)

[Henosis Sage]

Post by Henosis Sage

Post by Etznab

Post by Etznab
I have argued that Rebazar Tarzs is not a plagiarist. That he didn't speak all of those copied passages.
What do you think?

So it's not about plagiarism. It's about Eck Masters and if they are real. One can be specific about this. Look at the words written by and / or supposedly spoken (dictated, etc.) by the masters. One can check out the teachings from within too.
When Henosis Sage and I looked at the words and checked out the teachings from within, many times we arrived at the same findings without first communicating about them on the outer! Only later, after corresponding on the outer, did we realize the synchronicity.
The inner, spiritual exercises, etc. were very much a part of what was found. So when Rob is harping about spiritual exercises, I think he can speak for himself. Maybe he can even share his findings here? Join the discussions at a.r.e. where we all have the power to be sympathetic and civil.

aka "the Spiritual Exercises of ECK." worked for me too!!!
(smile)

and TWANG !!!

[Rob]

Post by Etznab

Post by Etznab
I have argued that Rebazar Tarzs is not a plagiarist. That he didn't speak all of those copied passages.
What do you think?

So it's not about plagiarism. It's about Eck Masters and if they are real. One can be specific about this. Look at the words written by and / or supposedly spoken (dictated, etc.) by the masters. One can check out the teachings from within too.
When Henosis Sage and I looked at the words and checked out the teachings from within, many times we arrived at the same findings without first communicating about them on the outer! Only later, after corresponding on the outer, did we realize the synchronicity.
The inner, spiritual exercises, etc. were very much a part of what was found. So when Rob is harping about spiritual exercises, I think he can speak for himself. Maybe he can even share his findings here? Join the discussions at a.r.e. where we all have the power to be sympathetic and civil.

I really have no regard for Henosis Sage or Rage and couldn't care less about his opinions. He should stick to what he does best: vitriolic anger and gratuitous abuse towards anyone who doesn't share his limited mindset. I'm done with him for life.

Back to ECKANKAR.

I am the arahata of a Master 2 satsang class. My personal discourse study is Soul Travel 2. Neither of these discourses was authored by Sri Paul Twitchell.

The ECK book I read this morning, A Modern Prophet, Book 2, was not authored by Paul Twitchell.

My point? Lodging your consciousness in the past means you cannot really grow in the here and now. ECKANKAR is not an orthodox teaching where we hang on the every word of the founder. I've mentioned this before but it bears repeating.

When I first encountered your contributions on this forum a few things struck me:

a) Why would any chela spend so much time and effort obsessing over 'plagiarism' when spiritual growth only comes from the Light and Sound of God - neither of which can be achieved purely by reading?

b) Isn't anybody who spends decades focusing on plagiarism lost in the past? Two Living ECK Masters have succeeded Paul Twitchell.

c) Anyone who spends this much time focusing on plagiarism will never find the heart of ECKANKAR and may perhaps may not even be spiritually ready for the teachings. In the meantime he distracts himself on a long circuitous, unsatisfying journey to nowhere.

d) Why wouldn't a chela with such long term concerns ask Paul himself in contemplation or invite Paulji or Wah Z into their consciousness for assistance?

Once, Etznab, you said you couldn't understand why other chelas weren't as obsessed with 'plagiarism' as you are. That told me immediately that you didn't really understand ECKANKAR at all.

For you it's not a spiritual path at all but some kind of academic enterprise where certain values must be adhered to. Paul didn't submit ECKANKAR to Harvard for a PhD thesis. He was mandated by the Sugmad to get the ECK teachings up and running. I'm grateful not critical.

[Etznab]

Post by Rob

Post by Etznab

Post by Etznab
I have argued that Rebazar Tarzs is not a plagiarist. That he didn't speak all of those copied passages.
What do you think?

So it's not about plagiarism. It's about Eck Masters and if they are real. One can be specific about this. Look at the words written by and / or supposedly spoken (dictated, etc.) by the masters. One can check out the teachings from within too.
When Henosis Sage and I looked at the words and checked out the teachings from within, many times we arrived at the same findings without first communicating about them on the outer! Only later, after corresponding on the outer, did we realize the synchronicity.
The inner, spiritual exercises, etc. were very much a part of what was found. So when Rob is harping about spiritual exercises, I think he can speak for himself. Maybe he can even share his findings here? Join the discussions at a.r.e. where we all have the power to be sympathetic and civil.

I really have no regard for Henosis Sage or Rage and couldn't care less about his opinions. He should stick to what he does best: vitriolic anger and gratuitous abuse towards anyone who doesn't share his limited mindset. I'm done with him for life.
Back to ECKANKAR.
I am the arahata of a Master 2 satsang class. My personal discourse study is Soul Travel 2. Neither of these discourses was authored by Sri Paul Twitchell.
The ECK book I read this morning, A Modern Prophet, Book 2, was not authored by Paul Twitchell.
My point? Lodging your consciousness in the past means you cannot really grow in the here and now. ECKANKAR is not an orthodox teaching where we hang on the every word of the founder. I've mentioned this before but it bears repeating.
a) Why would any chela spend so much time and effort obsessing over 'plagiarism' when spiritual growth only comes from the Light and Sound of God - neither of which can be achieved purely by reading?
b) Isn't anybody who spends decades focusing on plagiarism lost in the past? Two Living ECK Masters have succeeded Paul Twitchell.
c) Anyone who spends this much time focusing on plagiarism will never find the heart of ECKANKAR and may perhaps may not even be spiritually ready for the teachings. In the meantime he distracts himself on a long circuitous, unsatisfying journey to nowhere.
d) Why wouldn't a chela with such long term concerns ask Paul himself in contemplation or invite Paulji or Wah Z into their consciousness for assistance?
Once, Etznab, you said you couldn't understand why other chelas weren't as obsessed with 'plagiarism' as you are. That told me immediately that you didn't really understand ECKANKAR at all.
For you it's not a spiritual path at all but some kind of academic enterprise where certain values must be adhered to. Paul didn't submit ECKANKAR to Harvard for a PhD thesis. He was mandated by the Sugmad to get the ECK teachings up and running. I'm grateful not critical.

Good to see you can join the group and contribute, but do you have to be so evil about it? You wrote:

"[...] Once, Etznab, you said you couldn't understand why other chelas weren't as obsessed with 'plagiarism' as you are. [... .]"

Rob. I think if you write things like that that maybe you should give a quote and a context. I rather doubt it is the way you described it. Others use the word obsessed when talking about plagiarism because, to be frank, I think they are afraid of plagiarism. Afraid of what it means and where it leads. I say you don't have to be afraid of it. At least you know how to illustrate the word and mention it. Maybe Harold needs to do the same. Can you show me a quote where he mentions plagiarism. Where Harold Klemp mentions plagiarism even once? I think it might help. Maybe it is in the book you are studying.

If you can stop being afraid of plagiarism and the things that Paul Twitchell made up. Things that are repeated by leaders even today. I think that would be better than trying to undeservedly demonize another member of Eckankar in the ways you have.

[Henosis Sage]

Post by Rob
I really have no regard for Henosis Sage or Rage and couldn't care less about his opinions. He should stick to what he does best: vitriolic anger and gratuitous abuse towards anyone who doesn't share his limited mindset. I'm done with him for life.

Honestly, you're such a foolish old man Rob.

Can't even read properly, and have not for Years now! Not here and not what is written in the eck books and discourses either apparently.

You're the opposite of what a 'good eckist' would be like.

(huge shrug) about you're disruptive aggressive anger filled simpleton opinions of me and the world.

Life (and probably death too) will teach you better one day.

[godzilla]

Post by Rob

Post by Etznab

Post by Etznab
I have argued that Rebazar Tarzs is not a plagiarist. That he didn't speak all of those copied passages.
What do you think?

So it's not about plagiarism. It's about Eck Masters and if they are real. One can be specific about this. Look at the words written by and / or supposedly spoken (dictated, etc.) by the masters. One can check out the teachings from within too.
When Henosis Sage and I looked at the words and checked out the teachings from within, many times we arrived at the same findings without first communicating about them on the outer! Only later, after corresponding on the outer, did we realize the synchronicity.
The inner, spiritual exercises, etc. were very much a part of what was found. So when Rob is harping about spiritual exercises, I think he can speak for himself. Maybe he can even share his findings here? Join the discussions at a.r.e. where we all have the power to be sympathetic and civil.

I really have no regard for Henosis Sage or Rage and couldn't care less about his opinions. He should stick to what he does best: vitriolic anger and gratuitous abuse towards anyone who doesn't share his limited mindset. I'm done with him for life.
Back to ECKANKAR.
I am the arahata of a Master 2 satsang class. My personal discourse study is Soul Travel 2. Neither of these discourses was authored by Sri Paul Twitchell.
The ECK book I read this morning, A Modern Prophet, Book 2, was not authored by Paul Twitchell.
My point? Lodging your consciousness in the past means you cannot really grow in the here and now. ECKANKAR is not an orthodox teaching where we hang on the every word of the founder. I've mentioned this before but it bears repeating.
a) Why would any chela spend so much time and effort obsessing over 'plagiarism' when spiritual growth only comes from the Light and Sound of God - neither of which can be achieved purely by reading?
b) Isn't anybody who spends decades focusing on plagiarism lost in the past? Two Living ECK Masters have succeeded Paul Twitchell.
c) Anyone who spends this much time focusing on plagiarism will never find the heart of ECKANKAR and may perhaps may not even be spiritually ready for the teachings. In the meantime he distracts himself on a long circuitous, unsatisfying journey to nowhere.
d) Why wouldn't a chela with such long term concerns ask Paul himself in contemplation or invite Paulji or Wah Z into their consciousness for assistance?
Once, Etznab, you said you couldn't understand why other chelas weren't as obsessed with 'plagiarism' as you are. That told me immediately that you didn't really understand ECKANKAR at all.
For you it's not a spiritual path at all but some kind of academic enterprise where certain values must be adhered to. Paul didn't submit ECKANKAR to Harvard for a PhD thesis. He was mandated by the Sugmad to get the ECK teachings up and running. I'm grateful not critical.

Hi Rob,

To me, the issue of plagiarism is important because (and really only because) it casts doubt on the mastership of the plagiarizer. In short, why would a real master plagiarize? He should be able to draw upon the vast knowledge of the God worlds within himself. If you read the description of the Mahanta in the Shariyat, mastership and Mahantaship are not a trivial achievements. Such persons have access to everything (above all other masters), and so why would such a being draw upon library books to write foundational books of a movement?

I know Paulji lived a long time ago, and contemplating the question of plagiarism doesn't necessarily mean we're stuck in the past. Rather, it is relevant today because -- hypothetically speaking -- if a founding master was not a master after all, then there is reason to doubt the validity of any of his successors. And that takes us up to present.

To be sure, I'm not accusing Eckankar of plagiarizing or of having false masters in this post. Just explaining how old unsettled issues can have impact on us today.

IMO, I'm starting to entertain the possibility that a person who plagiarizes Might still be a master; that certain violations of our/society's codes of conduct might NOT disqualify someone from being a master.

How much "rule-violation" does disqualify one, then? I don't know, and that's yet another great question. Spiritual writings have a few instances of masters doing odd and even forbidden things, sometimes as a test of students and other times ... so who knows, right?

Anyway, these are burning and very relevant questions; and many battered souls on the fences would like some answers in this lifetime.

Lord please have mercy on us all.

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by Etznab

Post by Etznab
I have argued that Rebazar Tarzs is not a plagiarist. That he didn't speak all of those copied passages.
What do you think?

So it's not about plagiarism. It's about Eck Masters and if they are real. One can be specific about this. Look at the words written by and / or supposedly spoken (dictated, etc.) by the masters. One can check out the teachings from within too.
When Henosis Sage and I looked at the words and checked out the teachings from within, many times we arrived at the same findings without first communicating about them on the outer! Only later, after corresponding on the outer, did we realize the synchronicity.
The inner, spiritual exercises, etc. were very much a part of what was found. So when Rob is harping about spiritual exercises, I think he can speak for himself. Maybe he can even share his findings here? Join the discussions at a.r.e. where we all have the power to be sympathetic and civil.

You say you are an ECKist yet claim that the way to prove the reality of ECK Masters is to look at their words in a book. That's a very strange thing for an ECKist to say. The only way is via the Spiritual Exercises of ECK. Sing HU and ask to be shown the reality of the Vairagi.

Anybody who claims to be a member of ECKANKAR yet doesn't believe in the Spiritual Exercises of ECK will never, ever prove the reality of any aspect of the teachings. This is why, time after time, people have queried your supposed membership status. No true ECKist would ever dedicate 20 years to 'plagiarism'. They'd be too busy trying to reach Self and God Realization.

[Etznab]

Rob. Please take your black magic back to Africa.

[Henosis Sage]

Post by Etznab
Rob. Please take your black magic back to Africa.

"It is what it is"

The Eck Master Rumi

[s***@gmail.com]

Racist as well. No wonder ECKANKAR doesn't work for you. Why would it?

[Etznab]

Post by s***@gmail.com
Racist as well. No wonder ECKANKAR doesn't work for you. Why would it?

Racist? Tell it to my black family members! I told you where you can take your black magic, Rob. I think you want to play the race card because your insecure and can't see the evil that you conjure against others.

[Etznab]

Rob, I think you are looking for excuse after excuse to paint me as a bad Eckist because of insecurity about what copied, paraphrased and plagiarized words have to say about all those masters described in the past.

Are those plagiarism the words of Eck masters that Paul described. I don't think they are. So what is wrong with pointing this out and establishing the true facts? Are their other insecure Eckists who can't handle the truth? Or want to personally attack other members for it.

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by Etznab
Rob. Please take your black magic back to Africa.

Your innate racism is self-evident from this statement. Had I realised this earlier, I would never have wasted my breath on you. The Christian Bible states: "Out of the iniquity of the heart, the mouth speaketh."

[Henosis Sage]

On Tuesday, 11 February 2020 00:31:40 UTC+11, ***@gmail.com wrote:


ROB quotes the Bible:

The Christian Bible states: "Out of the iniquity of the heart, the mouth speaketh."

I heard an echo!

Works like a mirror when hypocrisy is operating.

[Etznab]

Post by s***@gmail.com
The Christian Bible states: "Out of the iniquity of the heart, the mouth speaketh."
I heard an echo!
Works like a mirror when hypocrisy is operating.

And Rebazar Tarzs spoke out books that Paul Twitchell copied. Or should I say, the imaginary literary vehicle / device Paul created spoke?

Then again, numerous examples suggest no speaking at all! but copying, printing, appropriating and selling!

If the legacy of Eckankar contains copied, paraphrased and plagiarized passages from numerous authors then that is what it is. Doesn't matter if Paul never told the membership, or never told people new to Eckankar. Doesn't matter that Darwin Gross (Paul's successor) couldn't admit it & tell people either. Doesn't matter the current leader said "[...] parts of what had been given in the past were gathered up by Paul Twitchell — honed, refined, and focused [... .]" (see link for context) And it doesn't matter that Harold called Paul "a master compiler", etc. If the legacy of Eckankar contains copied, paraphrased and plagiarized passages from numerous authors then that is what it is! There is no escaping it and this legacy can potentially haunt Eckankar and every single member until all learn to simply admit it, talk about it and explain honestly if the masters and beings credited were fictional creations real to the imagination only. And by "all" one might extend the list to include the following individuals and their members as well!

1. John-Roger Hinkins

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John-Roger_Hinkins

2. Darwin Gross

https://web.archive.org/web/20070103030915/http://www.atom.org/

3. Michael Turner

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/4vneqB8QaAM/dSgpD3RwfbsJ

4. Paul Marche

https://www.dhunami.guru/

5. Michael Owens

https://web.archive.org/web/20050327061902/http://www.thewayoftruth.com/bios.htm

6. Gary Olsen

https://www.masterpath.org/index.html

7. Allen Feldman

http://vardankar.com/

8. Gary Olsen

https://www.amazon.com/Master-Plagiarist-Gary-Olsen-MasterPath/dp/1565438949

9. Duane the Great Writer

http://www.duanethegreatwriter.info/

Copying and credited fictional beings together, if part of the legacy, cannot be made to go away. It must be accepted and fully embraced for what it is because the ignoring of it (IMHO) is a much bigger problem altogether.

[Etznab]

Post by s***@gmail.com
The Christian Bible states: "Out of the iniquity of the heart, the mouth speaketh."
I heard an echo!
Works like a mirror when hypocrisy is operating.

- show quoted text -
And Rebazar Tarzs spoke out books that Paul Twitchell copied. Or should I say, the imaginary literary vehicle / device Paul created spoke?

Then again, numerous examples suggest no speaking at all! but copying, printing, appropriating and selling!

If the legacy of Eckankar contains copied, paraphrased and plagiarized passages from numerous authors then that is what it is. Doesn't matter if Paul never told the membership, or never told people new to Eckankar. Doesn't matter that Darwin Gross (Paul's successor) couldn't admit it & tell people either. Doesn't matter the current leader said "[...] parts of what had been given in the past were gathered up by Paul Twitchell — honed, refined, and focused [... .]" (see link for context)

https://www.eckankar.org/FAQ/index.html#wherefrom

And it doesn't matter that Harold called Paul "a master compiler", etc. If the legacy of Eckankar contains copied, paraphrased and plagiarized passages from numerous authors then that is what it is! There is no escaping it and this legacy can potentially haunt Eckankar and every single member until all learn to simply admit it, talk about it and explain honestly if the masters and beings credited were fictional creations real to the imagination only. And by "all" one might extend the list to include the following individuals and their members as well!

1. John-Roger Hinkins

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John-Roger_Hinkins

2. Darwin Gross

https://web.archive.org/web/20070103030915/http://www.atom.org/

3. Michael Turner

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/4vneqB8QaAM/dSgpD3RwfbsJ

4. Paul Marche

https://www.dhunami.guru/

5. Michael Owens

https://web.archive.org/web/20050327061902/http://www.thewayoftruth.com/bios.htm

6. Gary Olsen

https://www.masterpath.org/index.html

7. Allen Feldman

http://vardankar.com/

8. Gary Olsen

https://www.amazon.com/Master-Plagiarist-Gary-Olsen-MasterPath/dp/1565438949

9. Duane the Great Writer

http://www.duanethegreatwriter.info/

Copying and credited fictional beings together, if part of the legacy, cannot be made to go away. It must be accepted and fully embraced for what it is because the ignoring of it (IMHO) is a much bigger problem altogether.

[Etznab]

Post by Etznab

Post by s***@gmail.com
The Christian Bible states: "Out of the iniquity of the heart, the mouth speaketh."
I heard an echo!
Works like a mirror when hypocrisy is operating.

- show quoted text -
And Rebazar Tarzs spoke out books that Paul Twitchell copied. Or should I say, the imaginary literary vehicle / device Paul created spoke?
Then again, numerous examples suggest no speaking at all! but copying, printing, appropriating and selling!
If the legacy of Eckankar contains copied, paraphrased and plagiarized passages from numerous authors then that is what it is. Doesn't matter if Paul never told the membership, or never told people new to Eckankar. Doesn't matter that Darwin Gross (Paul's successor) couldn't admit it & tell people either. Doesn't matter the current leader said "[...] parts of what had been given in the past were gathered up by Paul Twitchell — honed, refined, and focused [... .]" (see link for context)
https://www.eckankar.org/FAQ/index.html#wherefrom
And it doesn't matter that Harold called Paul "a master compiler", etc. If the legacy of Eckankar contains copied, paraphrased and plagiarized passages from numerous authors then that is what it is! There is no escaping it and this legacy can potentially haunt Eckankar and every single member until all learn to simply admit it, talk about it and explain honestly if the masters and beings credited were fictional creations real to the imagination only. And by "all" one might extend the list to include the following individuals and their members as well!
1. John-Roger Hinkins
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John-Roger_Hinkins
2. Darwin Gross
https://web.archive.org/web/20070103030915/http://www.atom.org/
3. Michael Turner
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/4vneqB8QaAM/dSgpD3RwfbsJ
4. Paul Marche
https://www.dhunami.guru/
5. Michael Owens
https://web.archive.org/web/20050327061902/http://www.thewayoftruth.com/bios.htm
6. Gary Olsen
https://www.masterpath.org/index.html
7. Allen Feldman
http://vardankar.com/
8. Gary Olsen
https://www.amazon.com/Master-Plagiarist-Gary-Olsen-MasterPath/dp/1565438949
9. Duane the Great Writer
http://www.duanethegreatwriter.info/
Copying and credited fictional beings together, if part of the legacy, cannot be made to go away. It must be accepted and fully embraced for what it is because the ignoring of it (IMHO) is a much bigger problem altogether.

To be fair, Michael Turner and others evidently know and accept the created fictions for what they are, or have tried to modify the teachings of Eckankar into something new. Whereas others are still using copied passages, crediting Rebazar Tarzs, or making out like the passages came from masters.

[Etznab]

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Etznab

Post by Etznab
I have argued that Rebazar Tarzs is not a plagiarist. That he didn't speak all of those copied passages.
What do you think?

So it's not about plagiarism. It's about Eck Masters and if they are real. One can be specific about this. Look at the words written by and / or supposedly spoken (dictated, etc.) by the masters. One can check out the teachings from within too.
When Henosis Sage and I looked at the words and checked out the teachings from within, many times we arrived at the same findings without first communicating about them on the outer! Only later, after corresponding on the outer, did we realize the synchronicity.
The inner, spiritual exercises, etc. were very much a part of what was found. So when Rob is harping about spiritual exercises, I think he can speak for himself. Maybe he can even share his findings here? Join the discussions at a.r.e. where we all have the power to be sympathetic and civil.

You say you are an ECKist yet claim that the way to prove the reality of ECK Masters is to look at their words in a book. That's a very strange thing for an ECKist to say. The only way is via the Spiritual Exercises of ECK. Sing HU and ask to be shown the reality of the Vairagi.
Anybody who claims to be a member of ECKANKAR yet doesn't believe in the Spiritual Exercises of ECK will never, ever prove the reality of any aspect of the teachings. This is why, time after time, people have queried your supposed membership status. No true ECKist would ever dedicate 20 years to 'plagiarism'. They'd be too busy trying to reach Self and God Realization.

"You say you are an ECKist yet claim that the way to prove the reality of ECK Masters is to look at their words in a book. [... .]" Did I say that, Rob? No. You said that and projected it onto me.

Harold Klemp, the current leader of Eckankar, looked at the words of another master. He then told us about "The Real Foundation".

"[...] You take the words and check out the teachings from within: Does this work for me or doesn't it? You have to know. And based upon what you know is how you conduct your life out here. [... .]"

https://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

Fake masters animated by a former pulp fiction writer turned self-appointed guru is something I look at and write about. I say fake because the words they used were copied from books and credited to alternate names which does not make them masters of any sort. Other than imaginary, or fake!

I think you overreacted, Rob, out of fear about what might happen to the image of imaginary and faked masters should the truth be known. Don't worry though. It doesn't mean masters don't exist. And I never said that masters don't exist. What I did and what I've done is illustrate words credited to certain masters. I showed the copied, paraphrased and plagiarized words credited to names assigned to them by Paul Twitchell and I asked if "THOSE" masters were real. If "THOSE" masters did really dictate, or say the words? It's none of your business, Rob, whether I or anybody else does this type of research. Meaning, it is not up to you whether it happens, or should it continue. And it's not up to you to define another member of Eckankar based on the pseudo history you make up to slander them. Your kind of black magic preaching has a reward Rob. You might like to wish it on another, but I doubt it something you would wish on yourself. I have watched you write about others here before, Rob. This is not the first time. So when I say you can have your black magic, I mean it.

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by Etznab
I have argued that Rebazar Tarzs is not a plagiarist. That he didn't speak all of those copied passages.
What do you think?

One thing you haven't grasped at all is that Paul invented nothing from a purely spiritual perspective. What he did was present truth to the general public that already existed.

Why do chelas stay with the teachings? Because they can prove the reality of the teachings for themselves. And how do they do this? By talking about plagiarism or by doing the Spiritual Exercises of ECK?

If you are not ready for the teachings of ECK in their current form, I doubt you would be ready for the teachings of ECK in any form.

I suggest, if you really are the ECKist you say you are, you look to Sri Harold Klemp, the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master. Invite him into your consciousness at bedtime and ask for help with your plagiarism issues. And don't forget to sing HU.

[Etznab]

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Etznab
I have argued that Rebazar Tarzs is not a plagiarist. That he didn't speak all of those copied passages.
What do you think?

One thing you haven't grasped at all is that Paul invented nothing from a purely spiritual perspective. What he did was present truth to the general public that already existed.
Why do chelas stay with the teachings? Because they can prove the reality of the teachings for themselves. And how do they do this? By talking about plagiarism or by doing the Spiritual Exercises of ECK?
If you are not ready for the teachings of ECK in their current form, I doubt you would be ready for the teachings of ECK in any form.
I suggest, if you really are the ECKist you say you are, you look to Sri Harold Klemp, the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master. Invite him into your consciousness at bedtime and ask for help with your plagiarism issues. And don't forget to sing HU.

I think you write like a black magician by characterizing another member of Eckankar in that way. It's way overboard Rob. So if you want to be afraid, be afraid of your karma returning to you.