Fighting fictions with more fictions.

[Etznab]

It seems to me that most of the Eckankar spin-off groups, along with a good number of critics, are not really correcting or fixing anything. Not when more and more fictions are heaped onto those that already exist. Frankly it's quite pathetic I think.

Why don't people try some fact-based research supported by empirical evidence? Otherwise, it looks to me like people are just doing more of the same things they claim to dislike.

IMHO, trying to fix the "mess" of religious pseudo history by replacing it with a different pseudo history only shows the immaturity of those who claim to correct the fictions with factual truth. And those apologists (like Marman) who spin yarns around Paul Twitchell's yarns, as if they are doing truth a service, I think probably ought to take up knitting instead. Not that sweaters are any use in the Pacific Northwest at this time.

[fife]

Post by Etznab
It seems to me that most of the Eckankar spin-off groups, along with a good number of critics, are not really correcting or fixing anything. Not when more and more fictions are heaped onto those that already exist. Frankly it's quite pathetic I think.
Why don't people try some fact-based research supported by empirical evidence? Otherwise, it looks to me like people are just doing more of the same things they claim to dislike.
IMHO, trying to fix the "mess" of religious pseudo history by replacing it with a different pseudo history only shows the immaturity of those who claim to correct the fictions with factual truth. And those apologists (like Marman) who spin yarns around Paul Twitchell's yarns, as if they are doing truth a service, I think probably ought to take up knitting instead. Not that sweaters are any use in the Pacific Northwest at this time.

Hi Etz. Yes, of course you're right. But you should be used to it by now because what you're talking about is "ECK" (collective unconscious). It's a sequence that begins with imagination ("golden wisdom") and proceeds through six other phases. If you're lucky those six other phases are unselfishness, inner wisdom, love, joy, hope, and truth. But do people know what they're doing? Usually, no. They just pile on. Or when they're playing it straight, or think they are, know half or even less of what they think they know they're talking about.

[Etznab]

Post by fife

Post by Etznab
It seems to me that most of the Eckankar spin-off groups, along with a good number of critics, are not really correcting or fixing anything. Not when more and more fictions are heaped onto those that already exist. Frankly it's quite pathetic I think.
Why don't people try some fact-based research supported by empirical evidence? Otherwise, it looks to me like people are just doing more of the same things they claim to dislike.
IMHO, trying to fix the "mess" of religious pseudo history by replacing it with a different pseudo history only shows the immaturity of those who claim to correct the fictions with factual truth. And those apologists (like Marman) who spin yarns around Paul Twitchell's yarns, as if they are doing truth a service, I think probably ought to take up knitting instead. Not that sweaters are any use in the Pacific Northwest at this time.

Hi Etz. Yes, of course you're right. But you should be used to it by now because what you're talking about is "ECK" (collective unconscious). It's a sequence that begins with imagination ("golden wisdom") and proceeds through six other phases. If you're lucky those six other phases are unselfishness, inner wisdom, love, joy, hope, and truth. But do people know what they're doing? Usually, no. They just pile on. Or when they're playing it straight, or think they are, know half or even less of what they think they know they're talking about.

"... because what you're talking about ... ."

Why write like that Fife?

I think you sounded like one of those preachy Eckankar clergy always trying to censor, or explain what another person said; according NOT to what the other person actually meant, but according to what you want them to mean.

ECK? Collective unconscious? Six phases? Those are your words and spin. Not mine.

[fife]

Post by fife

Post by Etznab
It seems to me that most of the Eckankar spin-off groups, along with a good number of critics, are not really correcting or fixing anything. Not when more and more fictions are heaped onto those that already exist. Frankly it's quite pathetic I think.
Why don't people try some fact-based research supported by empirical evidence? Otherwise, it looks to me like people are just doing more of the same things they claim to dislike.
IMHO, trying to fix the "mess" of religious pseudo history by replacing it with a different pseudo history only shows the immaturity of those who claim to correct the fictions with factual truth. And those apologists (like Marman) who spin yarns around Paul Twitchell's yarns, as if they are doing truth a service, I think probably ought to take up knitting instead. Not that sweaters are any use in the Pacific Northwest at this time.

Hi Etz. Yes, of course you're right. But you should be used to it by now because what you're talking about is "ECK" (collective unconscious). It's a sequence that begins with imagination ("golden wisdom") and proceeds through six other phases. If you're lucky those six other phases are unselfishness, inner wisdom, love, joy, hope, and truth. But do people know what they're doing? Usually, no. They just pile on. Or when they're playing it straight, or think they are, know half or even less of what they think they know they're talking about.

"... because what you're talking about ... ."
Why write like that Fife?
I think you sounded like one of those preachy Eckankar clergy always trying to censor, or explain what another person said; according NOT to what the other person actually meant, but according to what you want them to mean.
ECK? Collective unconscious? Six phases? Those are your words and spin.

What I wrote is a legitimate observation.

But you don't want to discuss ideas? No surprise there. You just want to discuss people and events, and history is you're big event? No surprise there either.

But let me tell you something Etznab. NORMAL people can and do discuss people, events, and ideas. All three. And can decide among them which is more important in the reality of the moment. What you're doing and demanding of everyone else that they be just like you is what?

[Etznab]

Post by Etznab
It seems to me that most of the Eckankar spin-off groups, along with a good number of critics, are not really correcting or fixing anything. Not when more and more fictions are heaped onto those that already exist. Frankly it's quite pathetic I think.
Why don't people try some fact-based research supported by empirical evidence? Otherwise, it looks to me like people are just doing more of the same things they claim to dislike.
IMHO, trying to fix the "mess" of religious pseudo history by replacing it with a different pseudo history only shows the immaturity of those who claim to correct the fictions with factual truth. And those apologists (like Marman) who spin yarns around Paul Twitchell's yarns, as if they are doing truth a service, I think probably ought to take up knitting instead. Not that sweaters are any use in the Pacific Northwest at this time.

"It seems to me that most of the Eckankar spin-off groups, along with a good number of critics, are not really correcting or fixing anything. Not when more and more fictions are heaped onto those that already exist. Frankly it's quite pathetic I think. [... .]"

Take away the Eckankar unbroken lineage of living masters. Then subtract all the copied, paraphrased, plagiarized passages said to come from them.

What remains? What about the Eckankar religion? Can there even be an Eckankar religion without them? I think ... not the one that Paul Twitchell and others have described.

So if the masters and the copied words used to animate them are not the true picture of things, then How can there be an Eckankar religion passed down among an unbroken lineage of living masters since Gakko on Venus some 6 million years ago? And if not an Eckankar religion of that caliber then How does the religion survive? Just imagine it? I mean, imagine one? Pile fictions on top of fictions like the spin-off groups have done? Like a.r.e. Eckankar apologists have done? Like riders for the eck brand posing as a.r.e. trolls have done?