Discussion:
Question
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Pathapp
2003-10-20 00:00:42 UTC
Permalink
Does anyone know why James Davis (the author of "The Rosetta Stone of God"),
and Nathan (a frequent contributor to this board) left Eckankar? Was it
because of the Ford Johnson book? Thanks
cher
2003-10-20 00:16:57 UTC
Permalink
They both post on ford johnson's BBS. Why not ask them? All we could do
is speculate, and to be honest that has proven to be a a sad measure of
finding out answers. <smile>
Post by Pathapp
Does anyone know why James Davis (the author of "The Rosetta Stone of God"),
and Nathan (a frequent contributor to this board) left Eckankar? Was it
because of the Ford Johnson book? Thanks
Sean
2003-10-20 02:12:17 UTC
Permalink
Pathapp...

Nathan also posted several times here a few weeks ago, my memory is that
both said they had come to a decision to leave before finding Ford's
site/info etc. as have many others. Some would call that synchronicity I
guess.

cheers
Post by cher
They both post on ford johnson's BBS. Why not ask them? All we could do
is speculate, and to be honest that has proven to be a a sad measure of
finding out answers. <smile>
Post by Pathapp
Does anyone know why James Davis (the author of "The Rosetta Stone of God"),
and Nathan (a frequent contributor to this board) left Eckankar? Was it
because of the Ford Johnson book? Thanks
Rich
2003-10-20 03:44:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pathapp
Does anyone know why James Davis (the author of "The Rosetta Stone of God"),
and Nathan (a frequent contributor to this board) left Eckankar? Was
it
Post by Pathapp
because of the Ford Johnson book?
Nathan has had problems with Eckankar for a _long_ time. From what I
recall about James, prior to the book, he had his own issues too.

The idea that people are leaving Eckankar based on what they read in a
single book is IMO an advertizing tactic to sell more copies. You only
here it from those shills promoting the book or on Ford's sites.

Seriously, what could one say about anybody that left a long held
teaching based solely on words in one book?

` o
|
~/|
_/ |\
/ | \
-/ | \
_ /____|___\_
(___________/
Rich~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MEST
2003-10-20 17:35:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pathapp
Post by Pathapp
Does anyone know why James Davis (the author of "The Rosetta Stone of
God"),
Post by Pathapp
and Nathan (a frequent contributor to this board) left Eckankar? Was
it
Post by Pathapp
because of the Ford Johnson book?
Nathan has had problems with Eckankar for a _long_ time. From what I
recall about James, prior to the book, he had his own issues too.
The idea that people are leaving Eckankar based on what they read in a
single book is IMO an advertizing tactic to sell more copies. You only
here it from those shills promoting the book or on Ford's sites.
Seriously, what could one say about anybody that left a long held
teaching based solely on words in one book?
That they are smarter than you?
Post by Pathapp
` o
|
~/|
_/ |\
/ | \
-/ | \
_ /____|___\_
(___________/
Rich~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
arelurker
2003-10-21 12:47:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pathapp
Post by Pathapp
Does anyone know why James Davis (the author of "The Rosetta Stone of
God"),
Post by Pathapp
and Nathan (a frequent contributor to this board) left Eckankar? Was
it
Post by Pathapp
because of the Ford Johnson book?
Nathan has had problems with Eckankar for a _long_ time. From what I
recall about James, prior to the book, he had his own issues too.
The idea that people are leaving Eckankar based on what they read in a
single book is IMO an advertizing tactic to sell more copies. You only
here it from those shills promoting the book or on Ford's sites.
Seriously, what could one say about anybody that left a long held
teaching based solely on words in one book?
They have integrity.

Lurk
Post by Pathapp
` o
|
~/|
_/ |\
/ | \
-/ | \
_ /____|___\_
(___________/
Rich~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
whitefeather
2003-10-22 13:02:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by arelurker
Post by Rich
The idea that people are leaving Eckankar based on what they read in a
single book is IMO an advertizing tactic to sell more copies. You only
here it from those shills promoting the book or on Ford's sites.
Seriously, what could one say about anybody that left a long held
teaching based solely on words in one book?
They have integrity.
Lurk
*** I didn't leave Eckankar because of a book. I look at my life,
this time around, as an agreement. On my path I gleaned many types
of experiences each a part of my spiritual learning process. Each
year on the path called eckankar (30 years), yes I learned from it...
it helped me move through illusion, realizing what was an "external
power, and what was an inner power".
I learned to be consciously aware of my higher self, and of my
potential as soul. What I found was my own "Middle path", or direct
path... It takes honesty, integrity, courage, self-respect, and love.
These are spiritual qualities and are very important for my
well-being. To ignore them/IT is like selling myself to a power
outside of myself. Eckankar offers a shortcut in life, a direct path
to god... what it is doing is short circuiting our own empowerment as
soul, a higher being! Eckankar appears to offer up for a membership
price, true enlightenment. If it can be bought, we are attracted to
it; All the secrets given to you including love, and protection, if
you pay a membership price.
This reminds me of the movie the Wizard of Oz... The Wizard hides
behind the curtain, giving out orders and enlightenment, puts you to
the test. When Dorothy and the rest do what is asked of them, they
come to find it isn't enough. Dorothy's dog Toto opens the curtain to
show that the Wizard is just roll-playing. The Wizard being less than
forthcoming on his promises.... (This path is 5% outer, 95% inner;
just in case the system doesn't work for the chela... The Wizard won't
have to take responsibility for the chela's failures) Dorothy
discovers on her own, that the Wizard couldn't take her home... she
discovers that she always had the power within herself to return home.
There is no direct path to God that you can buy... the direct path to
God is 100% inner, and only you as soul, your highself can discover
this.
I realized I did not need to walk in anyones shadow, not even a
godman on Earth. It has been said that those of us that have left the
teachings, well surely we must have become lazy... after all how
could a person that became a member at such a young age, spend 30
years in the teachings, become a 6th, an initiator and ESA, ever
question her path? Here is the thing, I realized I didn't have to
project my needs as soul onto a Master, and expect enlightenment.
There will always be someone or some path out there willing to take a
piece of your soul (money)... rendering you less powerful, and
themselves more powerful, (control over you, and in turn become more
the richer).
Becoming an H.I., allowed me to look at the whole outer
organization in a different light. I saw a lot of abuse by H.I.'s,
especially when it came time to evaluate each person up for the next
initiation. It is a sure and true test of how a person will either
allow ego to enter into their path, or will they remain heart
centered... Some H.I.'s won't admit they enjoy the power given
them... how much are you willing to sell of yourself, your morals,
your integrity, your soul, for the sake of a false security on a path
called Eckankar?
Swordsmen of the Sugmad; Eckankar's secret wapon, to take what
ever direction necessary for the organization to get what IT wants...
and they blindly go about their tasks forgetting to practise the
virtues of compassion, mindfulness... and yes finding it okay; it is
true, it is kind, it is necessary. It is easy to excuse away their
behavior, after all they are protecting the teachings.
cher
2003-10-22 15:11:59 UTC
Permalink
You know Elizabeth, even H.I.'s are humans with lessons to deal with.
There is no such thing as a perfect religion where human beings set
aside who they are and what they're here to learn for the sake of
conforming to a standard of perfection. It just doesn't happen that way
in real life. So we become one anothers lessons. It should be easier in
the same religion, knowing that our friends are using the same tools,
and well.. there but for the grace of god we all go. But for some reason
there seems to be this aspect of expectation in others that a religion
brings out. And that is one of the most difficult of all the lessons to
deal with that I've seen. Doesn't matter the initiation level, either
cause this one lesson shows itself over and over again til won and then
rewon. The funny thing about it is that this lesson is alive and well in
all religions and spiritual paths. It takes a huge toll on the members
as it leaves suspecion and hurt feelings and miscommunications in its
wake. But it's a spiritual lesson nontheless. And it appears that it's
best learned by having no religion in which to see the hearts of those
trying their best around us. A worthy lesson to take on.

Happy new year, Elizabeth.... and that's meant with love. <smile>

whitefeather wrote:
<snip>
Post by whitefeather
Swordsmen of the Sugmad; Eckankar's secret wapon, to take what
ever direction necessary for the organization to get what IT wants...
and they blindly go about their tasks forgetting to practise the
virtues of compassion, mindfulness... and yes finding it okay; it is
true, it is kind, it is necessary. It is easy to excuse away their
behavior, after all they are protecting the teachings.
Sean
2003-10-23 02:12:24 UTC
Permalink
Dear Elizabeth,

You are not the first to have difficulty separating the organisational
issues with the extra challenges they bring to people on a spiritual level,
from the teaching itself.

ime, the ones who have the hardest time of this are those caught up in local
organisational activities/responsibilities just like yourself. Separating
the wheat from the chaff, maintaining detachment, dealing with your own
judgemental ego is not easy when one commits to working within the
organisational structure of Eckankar and the local Satsangs.

My personal opinion is that those who serve in a formal capacity MAY need to
have good long break occasionally .............. like work for 3 years then
take a whole year off....... no matter what!

But that's hard when the ego says, "oh dear there's no one else to do this
important job I do" .......... I've heard that from almost every person I
know personally who works in a local satsang.......... and they keep saying
it whilst their home/personal life is going down the toilet.

All the problems you list below can be resolved with one simple word
"detachment".

I mean seriously, why on earth do you think Sri Harold recommends people
take a time out after they have become unbalanced from serving in formal
capacities for too many years? This is exactly what happened to Ford
........... but he didn't heed the advice, the ones who do, we never hear
about because they benefit from the break.

Many people simply get "burnt out" from too much activity .......... they
can then go past a point of no return, thinking that the only answer is to
dump the whole thing, when all they needed to do was take a step back and
relax for a while about 2 or 3 years beforehand.

I am forever mind boggled that what appears to be so many long time HI's
cannot see this simple solution of "detachment", or fail to be aware of what
is happening to them and the changes in their overt behaviour within
Satsangs.

It's not the teaching or Sri Harold's problem, they don't cause this, the
individual does of their own accord, imho. It's a lesson they obviously have
to learn through experience, which is why I imagine Sri Harold rarely
intervenes untill matters become way too out of control, eg Ford.

So enjoy the break yourself, and don't burn your bridges if you can help it.
Things may look a lot different in a few years time.

Sincerely Sean.
Post by whitefeather
Post by arelurker
Post by Rich
The idea that people are leaving Eckankar based on what they read in a
single book is IMO an advertizing tactic to sell more copies. You only
here it from those shills promoting the book or on Ford's sites.
Seriously, what could one say about anybody that left a long held
teaching based solely on words in one book?
They have integrity.
Lurk
*** I didn't leave Eckankar because of a book. I look at my life,
this time around, as an agreement. On my path I gleaned many types
of experiences each a part of my spiritual learning process. Each
year on the path called eckankar (30 years), yes I learned from it...
it helped me move through illusion, realizing what was an "external
power, and what was an inner power".
I learned to be consciously aware of my higher self, and of my
potential as soul. What I found was my own "Middle path", or direct
path... It takes honesty, integrity, courage, self-respect, and love.
These are spiritual qualities and are very important for my
well-being. To ignore them/IT is like selling myself to a power
outside of myself. Eckankar offers a shortcut in life, a direct path
to god... what it is doing is short circuiting our own empowerment as
soul, a higher being! Eckankar appears to offer up for a membership
price, true enlightenment. If it can be bought, we are attracted to
it; All the secrets given to you including love, and protection, if
you pay a membership price.
This reminds me of the movie the Wizard of Oz... The Wizard hides
behind the curtain, giving out orders and enlightenment, puts you to
the test. When Dorothy and the rest do what is asked of them, they
come to find it isn't enough. Dorothy's dog Toto opens the curtain to
show that the Wizard is just roll-playing. The Wizard being less than
forthcoming on his promises.... (This path is 5% outer, 95% inner;
just in case the system doesn't work for the chela... The Wizard won't
have to take responsibility for the chela's failures) Dorothy
discovers on her own, that the Wizard couldn't take her home... she
discovers that she always had the power within herself to return home.
There is no direct path to God that you can buy... the direct path to
God is 100% inner, and only you as soul, your highself can discover
this.
I realized I did not need to walk in anyones shadow, not even a
godman on Earth. It has been said that those of us that have left the
teachings, well surely we must have become lazy... after all how
could a person that became a member at such a young age, spend 30
years in the teachings, become a 6th, an initiator and ESA, ever
question her path? Here is the thing, I realized I didn't have to
project my needs as soul onto a Master, and expect enlightenment.
There will always be someone or some path out there willing to take a
piece of your soul (money)... rendering you less powerful, and
themselves more powerful, (control over you, and in turn become more
the richer).
Becoming an H.I., allowed me to look at the whole outer
organization in a different light. I saw a lot of abuse by H.I.'s,
especially when it came time to evaluate each person up for the next
initiation. It is a sure and true test of how a person will either
allow ego to enter into their path, or will they remain heart
centered... Some H.I.'s won't admit they enjoy the power given
them... how much are you willing to sell of yourself, your morals,
your integrity, your soul, for the sake of a false security on a path
called Eckankar?
Swordsmen of the Sugmad; Eckankar's secret wapon, to take what
ever direction necessary for the organization to get what IT wants...
and they blindly go about their tasks forgetting to practise the
virtues of compassion, mindfulness... and yes finding it okay; it is
true, it is kind, it is necessary. It is easy to excuse away their
behavior, after all they are protecting the teachings.
Rich
2003-10-24 08:04:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by whitefeather
*** I didn't leave Eckankar because of a book. I look at my life,
this time around, as an agreement. On my path I gleaned many types
of experiences each a part of my spiritual learning process. Each
year on the path called eckankar (30 years), yes I learned from it...
it helped me move through illusion, realizing what was an "external
power, and what was an inner power".
I learned to be consciously aware of my higher self, and of my
potential as soul. What I found was my own "Middle path", or direct
path... It takes honesty, integrity, courage, self-respect, and love.
These are spiritual qualities and are very important for my
well-being. To ignore them/IT is like selling myself to a power
outside of myself. Eckankar offers a shortcut in life, a direct path
to god... what it is doing is short circuiting our own empowerment as
soul, a higher being! Eckankar appears to offer up for a membership
price, true enlightenment. If it can be bought, we are attracted to
it; All the secrets given to you including love, and protection, if
you pay a membership price.
This reminds me of the movie the Wizard of Oz... The Wizard hides
behind the curtain, giving out orders and enlightenment, puts you to
the test. When Dorothy and the rest do what is asked of them, they
come to find it isn't enough. Dorothy's dog Toto opens the curtain to
show that the Wizard is just roll-playing. The Wizard being less than
forthcoming on his promises.... (This path is 5% outer, 95% inner;
just in case the system doesn't work for the chela... The Wizard won't
have to take responsibility for the chela's failures) Dorothy
discovers on her own, that the Wizard couldn't take her home... she
discovers that she always had the power within herself to return home.
There is no direct path to God that you can buy... the direct path to
God is 100% inner, and only you as soul, your highself can discover
this.
I realized I did not need to walk in anyones shadow, not even a
godman on Earth. It has been said that those of us that have left the
teachings, well surely we must have become lazy... after all how
could a person that became a member at such a young age, spend 30
years in the teachings, become a 6th, an initiator and ESA, ever
question her path? Here is the thing, I realized I didn't have to
project my needs as soul onto a Master, and expect enlightenment.
There will always be someone or some path out there willing to take a
piece of your soul (money)... rendering you less powerful, and
themselves more powerful, (control over you, and in turn become more
the richer).
Becoming an H.I., allowed me to look at the whole outer
organization in a different light. I saw a lot of abuse by H.I.'s,
especially when it came time to evaluate each person up for the next
initiation. It is a sure and true test of how a person will either
allow ego to enter into their path, or will they remain heart
centered... Some H.I.'s won't admit they enjoy the power given
them... how much are you willing to sell of yourself, your morals,
your integrity, your soul, for the sake of a false security on a path
called Eckankar?
Swordsmen of the Sugmad; Eckankar's secret wapon, to take what
ever direction necessary for the organization to get what IT wants...
and they blindly go about their tasks forgetting to practise the
virtues of compassion, mindfulness... and yes finding it okay; it is
true, it is kind, it is necessary. It is easy to excuse away their
behavior, after all they are protecting the teachings.
You start by saying that you in fact did learn thru the teachings of
Eckankar to see thru the illusions, become consciously aware of your
higher self, and to know that the direct path to God is 100% on the
inner. Same for me. I learned that eventually, as Eckankar teaches,
that one must stand apart from the path and Master. in a state of
consciousness. Some need to reject the path and the master to do this,
others don't. But then your writing changes, and you turn your focus
away from this Soul perspective onto the outer imperfections that are
present in every human being and try to negate the very path you learned
from with swordsmanship of an anti-Eckankar nature. That's what often
happens when one relegates more importance to social concerns about
power, money and personality. We are all Soul and there is no
perfection in the human state. Maintaining expanded states of
consciousness requires attention in every human moment. There are no
shortcut to that. Eckankar offers to point the way to the true inner
path with a variety tools. Choosing the right tool, and doing the
actual work, is our responsibility alone. If there's a short circuit,
it's our transformer overheating because of an imbalance with the
positive and negative forces within us.
` o
|
~/|
_/ |\
/ | \
-/ | \
_ /____|___\_
(___________/
Rich~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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