"Eckankar", HOW DID IT HAPPEN?

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

Etznab

2022-03-07 19:26:58 UTC

"This 1963 pre-eckankar article by Paul Twitchell clearly reveals the truth:
he made it all up. ... a new religion, entitled 'Eckankar,' a Hindy word meaning Union with God. [... .]"

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/sTidxA6VGWY/m/X1DfPRasYAEJ

References here

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPU2RiVldmYzY3UUE/view?resourcekey=0-skJmVyDNPAexEGl8WDUEPw

and here

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPVExRd3lXdHY2Mnc/view?resourcekey=0-yxR2sM5K1tBZ6pp8_JEmhA

So it might seem that "IT" ("Eckankar") happened after this word first appeared in print. However, before that, was the word "Ekankar". For example:

A quote by Doug Marman:

"Here is a transcription of Paul's actual words in the 1966 talk: Names, Places and Sounds in the Discourses.

"Eckankar is the Science of Total Awareness because it is dealing with the upper planes, and it can go quite deeply into the life of the upper planes. You’ll find that the word of itself is a mispronounced or corrupted spelling that came out of the word E-k-a-n-k-a-r (Paul verbally spells the word out), which means the One Supreme All-inclusiveness of God, or the Co-Worker of God."

So evidently Paul knew about the spelling Ekankar. Paul knew this spelling as it was included in one of the most heavily plagiarized sources. Example:

[...]

"In the literature of the saints, God is expressed by many words, such as Soami, Ekankar, Nirankar, Radha Soami, Akal, Nirala, Anami, Agam, Alakh, Sat Purush, Prabhu, Prabhswami, Hari Rai, Akshar, Parameshwar, Akshar Purush, etc. All of these words have been coined in an effort to convey to human intelligence some idea of what the saints think of God, or Lord God, the highest power. Ekankar means the 'one oneness', the body of oneness. Nirankar means 'without body or form'. Soami or Swami means the 'all-pervading lord'. [... .]

[Based on: The Path of the Masters, by Julian Johnson, Copyright 1939, Sixteenth Edition 1997, Chap. Five: God and the Grand Hierarchy of the Universe, pp. 242-245. - The Path of the Masters was reportedly written in the 1930s.]

http://www.archive.org/stream/ThePathOfTheMasters/ThePathOfTheMasters_djvu.txt

http://www.archive.org/stream/ThePathOfTheMasters/ThePathOfTheMasters#page/n1/mode/2up

Paul Twitchell's own version subsequent to that includes:

"Rebazar Tarzs paused for a few minutes to catch his breath. I looked out the open window at the rocks where a frenzy of violent forces were causing a great upheaval of slate, limestone, lava, granite and sandstone, mixing all into strange patterns.
"The cliffs across from the mud hut showed formations twisted and turned into gigantic whorls. I was looking at these, wondering why the SUGMAD had let nature run wild, when Tarzs spoke again.

[...]

"In the literature of the sacred, this divine formless spirit is expressed by many names, such as, ECKANKAR, Nirankar, Akal, Nirala, Anami, Agam, Alakh, Sat Purush, Prabhu, Prabhswami, Akashar, Paramakshar, Purusha.
"All of these words have been coined in an effort to convey to human intelligence some idea of what the Saints think of the SUGMAD, or Lord God, the highest power.
"ECKANKAR means the one oneness, the body of oneness. All, or Totality - this is the secret name og God or the SUGMAD which will be creeping into these talks between us as I go deeper into this philosophy.

[...]

"He finished, stood up and looked around. Outside the mountains had turned a pinkish color and then green. It was time to go and I left knowing that on the morning, Rebazar Tarzs would start again on his discussions of the Far Country.
"I would be back."

[Based on: The Far Country, by Paul Twitchell, Copyright 1970, Eighth Printing - 1983, Chapter. One: The Far Country. - The Far Country was reportedly written about 1963-1964.]

http://www.archive.org/stream/farcountry017342mbp/farcountry017342mbp_djvu.txt

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/s2TFyudXw38/m/SazUK4FIAQAJ

Etznab

2022-03-07 19:51:19 UTC

Permalink

Post by Etznab
he made it all up. ... a new religion, entitled 'Eckankar,' a Hindy word meaning Union with God. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/sTidxA6VGWY/m/X1DfPRasYAEJ
References here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPU2RiVldmYzY3UUE/view?resourcekey=0-skJmVyDNPAexEGl8WDUEPw
and here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPVExRd3lXdHY2Mnc/view?resourcekey=0-yxR2sM5K1tBZ6pp8_JEmhA
"Here is a transcription of Paul's actual words in the 1966 talk: Names, Places and Sounds in the Discourses.
"Eckankar is the Science of Total Awareness because it is dealing with the upper planes, and it can go quite deeply into the life of the upper planes. You’ll find that the word of itself is a mispronounced or corrupted spelling that came out of the word E-k-a-n-k-a-r (Paul verbally spells the word out), which means the One Supreme All-inclusiveness of God, or the Co-Worker of God."
[...]
"In the literature of the saints, God is expressed by many words, such as Soami, Ekankar, Nirankar, Radha Soami, Akal, Nirala, Anami, Agam, Alakh, Sat Purush, Prabhu, Prabhswami, Hari Rai, Akshar, Parameshwar, Akshar Purush, etc. All of these words have been coined in an effort to convey to human intelligence some idea of what the saints think of God, or Lord God, the highest power. Ekankar means the 'one oneness', the body of oneness. Nirankar means 'without body or form'. Soami or Swami means the 'all-pervading lord'. [... .]
[Based on: The Path of the Masters, by Julian Johnson, Copyright 1939, Sixteenth Edition 1997, Chap. Five: God and the Grand Hierarchy of the Universe, pp. 242-245. - The Path of the Masters was reportedly written in the 1930s.]
http://www.archive.org/stream/ThePathOfTheMasters/ThePathOfTheMasters_djvu.txt
http://www.archive.org/stream/ThePathOfTheMasters/ThePathOfTheMasters#page/n1/mode/2up
"Rebazar Tarzs paused for a few minutes to catch his breath. I looked out the open window at the rocks where a frenzy of violent forces were causing a great upheaval of slate, limestone, lava, granite and sandstone, mixing all into strange patterns.
"The cliffs across from the mud hut showed formations twisted and turned into gigantic whorls. I was looking at these, wondering why the SUGMAD had let nature run wild, when Tarzs spoke again.
[...]
"In the literature of the sacred, this divine formless spirit is expressed by many names, such as, ECKANKAR, Nirankar, Akal, Nirala, Anami, Agam, Alakh, Sat Purush, Prabhu, Prabhswami, Akashar, Paramakshar, Purusha.
"All of these words have been coined in an effort to convey to human intelligence some idea of what the Saints think of the SUGMAD, or Lord God, the highest power.
"ECKANKAR means the one oneness, the body of oneness. All, or Totality - this is the secret name og God or the SUGMAD which will be creeping into these talks between us as I go deeper into this philosophy.
[...]
"He finished, stood up and looked around. Outside the mountains had turned a pinkish color and then green. It was time to go and I left knowing that on the morning, Rebazar Tarzs would start again on his discussions of the Far Country.
"I would be back."
[Based on: The Far Country, by Paul Twitchell, Copyright 1970, Eighth Printing - 1983, Chapter. One: The Far Country. - The Far Country was reportedly written about 1963-1964.]
http://www.archive.org/stream/farcountry017342mbp/farcountry017342mbp_djvu.txt
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/s2TFyudXw38/m/SazUK4FIAQAJ

Evidently then, history records a word spelled with the letters e, c, k, a, n, k, a, r (in that order) and after that came so many written descriptions about what "IT" was. Including so many words that were "gathered" by Paul Twitchell, the "Master Compiler"?

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/z5LTQxOLgiI/m/I0rpvk2RAwAJ

What about Eckankar's Rebazar Tarzs then? How does he fit into the teachings of Eckankar?

"... He created the dialog with Rebazar Tarzs, in The Far Country, because this was a much more effective and interesting way of communicating, than simply pontificating. [... .]"

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/cHzE0Cdcfy4/M6ZJAPyvTNsJ

Much more effective way of plagiarizing and paraphrasing too? Doug?

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/F6r7rkNpFak/m/cyqqOfvjBwAJ

Etznab

2022-03-07 19:59:18 UTC

Permalink

Post by Etznab

Evidently then, history records a word spelled with the letters e, c, k, a, n, k, a, r (in that order) and after that came so many written descriptions about what "IT" was. Including so many words that were "gathered" by Paul Twitchell, the "Master Compiler"?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/z5LTQxOLgiI/m/I0rpvk2RAwAJ
What about Eckankar's Rebazar Tarzs then? How does he fit into the teachings of Eckankar?
"... He created the dialog with Rebazar Tarzs, in The Far Country, because this was a much more effective and interesting way of communicating, than simply pontificating. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/cHzE0Cdcfy4/M6ZJAPyvTNsJ
Much more effective way of plagiarizing and paraphrasing too? Doug?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/F6r7rkNpFak/m/cyqqOfvjBwAJ

How did it happen? Well, that question was the reason for this thread. Because a number of years have passed already since the earlier posts, and I wanted to reword how things appear now. Before attempting that, however, I have to provide an intro for those who know little about written Eckankar history and some of the once popular beliefs.

Etznab

2022-03-07 20:19:05 UTC

Permalink

Post by Etznab

Evidently then, history records a word spelled with the letters e, c, k, a, n, k, a, r (in that order) and after that came so many written descriptions about what "IT" was. Including so many words that were "gathered" by Paul Twitchell, the "Master Compiler"?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/z5LTQxOLgiI/m/I0rpvk2RAwAJ
What about Eckankar's Rebazar Tarzs then? How does he fit into the teachings of Eckankar?
"... He created the dialog with Rebazar Tarzs, in The Far Country, because this was a much more effective and interesting way of communicating, than simply pontificating. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/cHzE0Cdcfy4/M6ZJAPyvTNsJ
Much more effective way of plagiarizing and paraphrasing too? Doug?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/F6r7rkNpFak/m/cyqqOfvjBwAJ

I think a lot of the written teachings are important when they report about history. When they tell us where "Eckankar" (now a non-profit religion) came from. ESPECIALLY when they talk about who was / were the leader / leaders before Paul Twitchell, the founder. People were told about Rebazar Tarzs, but is that the truth? And is it true that Rebazar Tarzs belongs to an unbroken lineage of masters going all the way back to Gakko, from Venus?

"Ramaj was one of the first initiates in the ancient Order of the Vairagi. Before him was Dayaka, who was a great ECK Master in Lemuria. Then there was Kassapa, the living ECK Master who preceded the antediluvian disaster of Atlantis. The line can be traced all the way back to Gakko who came out of the heart of God into this world about six million years ago. The whole line of ECK Masters has descended from him in an unbroken lineage." [Based on: The Spiritual Notebook, by Paul Twitchell [d. 1971], Original copyright 1971, copyright transferred to ECKANKAR 1979, 10th printing 1983, pp. 196-197]

I just think it very well fair to state that the written Eckankar teachings are considered inferior to other "spiritual" teachings, and because a good amount of the written Eckankar teachings are doubtfully based on literal truth, but on literal fiction instead. And the truth is important and often superior to fiction because why?

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/M5mZ2hfw3c0/m/WIdEPqlIAQAJ

Etznab

2022-03-07 20:37:22 UTC

Permalink

Post by Etznab

Evidently then, history records a word spelled with the letters e, c, k, a, n, k, a, r (in that order) and after that came so many written descriptions about what "IT" was. Including so many words that were "gathered" by Paul Twitchell, the "Master Compiler"?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/z5LTQxOLgiI/m/I0rpvk2RAwAJ
What about Eckankar's Rebazar Tarzs then? How does he fit into the teachings of Eckankar?
"... He created the dialog with Rebazar Tarzs, in The Far Country, because this was a much more effective and interesting way of communicating, than simply pontificating. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/cHzE0Cdcfy4/M6ZJAPyvTNsJ
Much more effective way of plagiarizing and paraphrasing too? Doug?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/F6r7rkNpFak/m/cyqqOfvjBwAJ

I think a lot of the written teachings are important when they report about history. When they tell us where "Eckankar" (now a non-profit religion) came from. ESPECIALLY when they talk about who was / were the leader / leaders before Paul Twitchell, the founder. People were told about Rebazar Tarzs, but is that the truth? And is it true that Rebazar Tarzs belongs to an unbroken lineage of masters going all the way back to Gakko, from Venus?
"Ramaj was one of the first initiates in the ancient Order of the Vairagi. Before him was Dayaka, who was a great ECK Master in Lemuria. Then there was Kassapa, the living ECK Master who preceded the antediluvian disaster of Atlantis. The line can be traced all the way back to Gakko who came out of the heart of God into this world about six million years ago. The whole line of ECK Masters has descended from him in an unbroken lineage." [Based on: The Spiritual Notebook, by Paul Twitchell [d. 1971], Original copyright 1971, copyright transferred to ECKANKAR 1979, 10th printing 1983, pp. 196-197]
I just think it very well fair to state that the written Eckankar teachings are considered inferior to other "spiritual" teachings, and because a good amount of the written Eckankar teachings are doubtfully based on literal truth, but on literal fiction instead. And the truth is important and often superior to fiction because why?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/M5mZ2hfw3c0/m/WIdEPqlIAQAJ

BTW

Gakko 学校 noun. The Japanese word for "school" ... .
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Gakko+means&form=ANNTH1&refig=911f59e1a7ca48eb8103928cbb762b37

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%AD%A6%E6%A0%A1

Is that what it's all about then? Paul Twitchell's "form of school" where "anything goes"? Just a couple thoughts.

Etznab

2022-03-07 20:56:15 UTC

Permalink

Post by Etznab

Evidently then, history records a word spelled with the letters e, c, k, a, n, k, a, r (in that order) and after that came so many written descriptions about what "IT" was. Including so many words that were "gathered" by Paul Twitchell, the "Master Compiler"?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/z5LTQxOLgiI/m/I0rpvk2RAwAJ
What about Eckankar's Rebazar Tarzs then? How does he fit into the teachings of Eckankar?
"... He created the dialog with Rebazar Tarzs, in The Far Country, because this was a much more effective and interesting way of communicating, than simply pontificating. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/cHzE0Cdcfy4/M6ZJAPyvTNsJ
Much more effective way of plagiarizing and paraphrasing too? Doug?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/F6r7rkNpFak/m/cyqqOfvjBwAJ

I think a lot of the written teachings are important when they report about history. When they tell us where "Eckankar" (now a non-profit religion) came from. ESPECIALLY when they talk about who was / were the leader / leaders before Paul Twitchell, the founder. People were told about Rebazar Tarzs, but is that the truth? And is it true that Rebazar Tarzs belongs to an unbroken lineage of masters going all the way back to Gakko, from Venus?
"Ramaj was one of the first initiates in the ancient Order of the Vairagi. Before him was Dayaka, who was a great ECK Master in Lemuria. Then there was Kassapa, the living ECK Master who preceded the antediluvian disaster of Atlantis. The line can be traced all the way back to Gakko who came out of the heart of God into this world about six million years ago. The whole line of ECK Masters has descended from him in an unbroken lineage." [Based on: The Spiritual Notebook, by Paul Twitchell [d. 1971], Original copyright 1971, copyright transferred to ECKANKAR 1979, 10th printing 1983, pp. 196-197]
I just think it very well fair to state that the written Eckankar teachings are considered inferior to other "spiritual" teachings, and because a good amount of the written Eckankar teachings are doubtfully based on literal truth, but on literal fiction instead. And the truth is important and often superior to fiction because why?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/M5mZ2hfw3c0/m/WIdEPqlIAQAJ

BTW
Gakko 学校 noun. The Japanese word for "school" ... .
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Gakko+means&form=ANNTH1&refig=911f59e1a7ca48eb8103928cbb762b37
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%AD%A6%E6%A0%A1
Is that what it's all about then? Paul Twitchell's "form of school" where "anything goes"? Just a couple thoughts.

In the beginning, before the official "religion" definition (and all the bells and whistles to go along with making it that), was it a place more like a school, or "reading rooms" where people could go and learn about stuff? I'm talking about the very early structure of what Paul Twitchell had, or intended? Before some people wanted to turn it into a religion, to which Paul Twitchell replied (according to Patti Simpson) "They'll be sorry."

Etznab

2022-03-07 21:07:05 UTC

Permalink

Post by Etznab

Evidently then, history records a word spelled with the letters e, c, k, a, n, k, a, r (in that order) and after that came so many written descriptions about what "IT" was. Including so many words that were "gathered" by Paul Twitchell, the "Master Compiler"?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/z5LTQxOLgiI/m/I0rpvk2RAwAJ
What about Eckankar's Rebazar Tarzs then? How does he fit into the teachings of Eckankar?
"... He created the dialog with Rebazar Tarzs, in The Far Country, because this was a much more effective and interesting way of communicating, than simply pontificating. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/cHzE0Cdcfy4/M6ZJAPyvTNsJ
Much more effective way of plagiarizing and paraphrasing too? Doug?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/F6r7rkNpFak/m/cyqqOfvjBwAJ

I think a lot of the written teachings are important when they report about history. When they tell us where "Eckankar" (now a non-profit religion) came from. ESPECIALLY when they talk about who was / were the leader / leaders before Paul Twitchell, the founder. People were told about Rebazar Tarzs, but is that the truth? And is it true that Rebazar Tarzs belongs to an unbroken lineage of masters going all the way back to Gakko, from Venus?
"Ramaj was one of the first initiates in the ancient Order of the Vairagi. Before him was Dayaka, who was a great ECK Master in Lemuria. Then there was Kassapa, the living ECK Master who preceded the antediluvian disaster of Atlantis. The line can be traced all the way back to Gakko who came out of the heart of God into this world about six million years ago. The whole line of ECK Masters has descended from him in an unbroken lineage." [Based on: The Spiritual Notebook, by Paul Twitchell [d. 1971], Original copyright 1971, copyright transferred to ECKANKAR 1979, 10th printing 1983, pp. 196-197]
I just think it very well fair to state that the written Eckankar teachings are considered inferior to other "spiritual" teachings, and because a good amount of the written Eckankar teachings are doubtfully based on literal truth, but on literal fiction instead. And the truth is important and often superior to fiction because why?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/M5mZ2hfw3c0/m/WIdEPqlIAQAJ

BTW
Gakko 学校 noun. The Japanese word for "school" ... .
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Gakko+means&form=ANNTH1&refig=911f59e1a7ca48eb8103928cbb762b37
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%AD%A6%E6%A0%A1
Is that what it's all about then? Paul Twitchell's "form of school" where "anything goes"? Just a couple thoughts.

I wonder then if not a more pertinent question to ask: How did it, The Eckankar religion, happen?

As an aside, Did Eckankar, the religion, begin the same year (1970) that Paul Twitchell allegedly knowingly (like Buddha) drank poison? and then about one year later died?

"A very significant event in Paul's spiritual evolution took place in the summer of 1970. During a trip to Spain, he was poisoned. A young man, under the influence of the Kal Niranjan, slipped an extremely potent poison into Paul's citrus drink. Paul had walked into this individual's home with complete openness and an abounding love, and when he was handed the juice, he drank it. But he knew it would harm him, in the same way that Buddha did when he ate the tainted rice."

http://web.archive.org/web/20060830023713/http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

fife

2022-03-07 21:46:16 UTC

Permalink

Post by Etznab

Evidently then, history records a word spelled with the letters e, c, k, a, n, k, a, r (in that order) and after that came so many written descriptions about what "IT" was. Including so many words that were "gathered" by Paul Twitchell, the "Master Compiler"?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/z5LTQxOLgiI/m/I0rpvk2RAwAJ
What about Eckankar's Rebazar Tarzs then? How does he fit into the teachings of Eckankar?
"... He created the dialog with Rebazar Tarzs, in The Far Country, because this was a much more effective and interesting way of communicating, than simply pontificating. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/cHzE0Cdcfy4/M6ZJAPyvTNsJ
Much more effective way of plagiarizing and paraphrasing too? Doug?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/F6r7rkNpFak/m/cyqqOfvjBwAJ

I think a lot of the written teachings are important when they report about history. When they tell us where "Eckankar" (now a non-profit religion) came from. ESPECIALLY when they talk about who was / were the leader / leaders before Paul Twitchell, the founder. People were told about Rebazar Tarzs, but is that the truth? And is it true that Rebazar Tarzs belongs to an unbroken lineage of masters going all the way back to Gakko, from Venus?
"Ramaj was one of the first initiates in the ancient Order of the Vairagi. Before him was Dayaka, who was a great ECK Master in Lemuria. Then there was Kassapa, the living ECK Master who preceded the antediluvian disaster of Atlantis. The line can be traced all the way back to Gakko who came out of the heart of God into this world about six million years ago. The whole line of ECK Masters has descended from him in an unbroken lineage." [Based on: The Spiritual Notebook, by Paul Twitchell [d. 1971], Original copyright 1971, copyright transferred to ECKANKAR 1979, 10th printing 1983, pp. 196-197]
I just think it very well fair to state that the written Eckankar teachings are considered inferior to other "spiritual" teachings, and because a good amount of the written Eckankar teachings are doubtfully based on literal truth, but on literal fiction instead. And the truth is important and often superior to fiction because why?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/M5mZ2hfw3c0/m/WIdEPqlIAQAJ

BTW
Gakko 学校 noun. The Japanese word for "school" ... .
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Gakko+means&form=ANNTH1&refig=911f59e1a7ca48eb8103928cbb762b37
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%AD%A6%E6%A0%A1
Is that what it's all about then? Paul Twitchell's "form of school" where "anything goes"? Just a couple thoughts.

I wonder then if not a more pertinent question to ask: How did it, The Eckankar religion, happen?
As an aside, Did Eckankar, the religion, begin the same year (1970) that Paul Twitchell allegedly knowingly (like Buddha) drank poison? and then about one year later died?
"A very significant event in Paul's spiritual evolution took place in the summer of 1970. During a trip to Spain, he was poisoned. A young man, under the influence of the Kal Niranjan, slipped an extremely potent poison into Paul's citrus drink. Paul had walked into this individual's home with complete openness and an abounding love, and when he was handed the juice, he drank it. But he knew it would harm him, in the same way that Buddha did when he ate the tainted rice."
http://web.archive.org/web/20060830023713/http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

And yet after 35 years you still don't have enough self respect to quit.

Etznab

2022-03-08 23:34:44 UTC

Permalink

Post by fife

Post by Etznab

Evidently then, history records a word spelled with the letters e, c, k, a, n, k, a, r (in that order) and after that came so many written descriptions about what "IT" was. Including so many words that were "gathered" by Paul Twitchell, the "Master Compiler"?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/z5LTQxOLgiI/m/I0rpvk2RAwAJ
What about Eckankar's Rebazar Tarzs then? How does he fit into the teachings of Eckankar?
"... He created the dialog with Rebazar Tarzs, in The Far Country, because this was a much more effective and interesting way of communicating, than simply pontificating. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/cHzE0Cdcfy4/M6ZJAPyvTNsJ
Much more effective way of plagiarizing and paraphrasing too? Doug?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/F6r7rkNpFak/m/cyqqOfvjBwAJ

I think a lot of the written teachings are important when they report about history. When they tell us where "Eckankar" (now a non-profit religion) came from. ESPECIALLY when they talk about who was / were the leader / leaders before Paul Twitchell, the founder. People were told about Rebazar Tarzs, but is that the truth? And is it true that Rebazar Tarzs belongs to an unbroken lineage of masters going all the way back to Gakko, from Venus?
"Ramaj was one of the first initiates in the ancient Order of the Vairagi. Before him was Dayaka, who was a great ECK Master in Lemuria. Then there was Kassapa, the living ECK Master who preceded the antediluvian disaster of Atlantis. The line can be traced all the way back to Gakko who came out of the heart of God into this world about six million years ago. The whole line of ECK Masters has descended from him in an unbroken lineage." [Based on: The Spiritual Notebook, by Paul Twitchell [d. 1971], Original copyright 1971, copyright transferred to ECKANKAR 1979, 10th printing 1983, pp. 196-197]
I just think it very well fair to state that the written Eckankar teachings are considered inferior to other "spiritual" teachings, and because a good amount of the written Eckankar teachings are doubtfully based on literal truth, but on literal fiction instead. And the truth is important and often superior to fiction because why?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/M5mZ2hfw3c0/m/WIdEPqlIAQAJ

BTW
Gakko 学校 noun. The Japanese word for "school" ... .
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Gakko+means&form=ANNTH1&refig=911f59e1a7ca48eb8103928cbb762b37
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%AD%A6%E6%A0%A1
Is that what it's all about then? Paul Twitchell's "form of school" where "anything goes"? Just a couple thoughts.

I wonder then if not a more pertinent question to ask: How did it, The Eckankar religion, happen?
As an aside, Did Eckankar, the religion, begin the same year (1970) that Paul Twitchell allegedly knowingly (like Buddha) drank poison? and then about one year later died?
"A very significant event in Paul's spiritual evolution took place in the summer of 1970. During a trip to Spain, he was poisoned. A young man, under the influence of the Kal Niranjan, slipped an extremely potent poison into Paul's citrus drink. Paul had walked into this individual's home with complete openness and an abounding love, and when he was handed the juice, he drank it. But he knew it would harm him, in the same way that Buddha did when he ate the tainted rice."
http://web.archive.org/web/20060830023713/http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

And yet after 35 years you still don't have enough self respect to quit.

Perhaps one contribution were the members who invested in making Eckankar a religion and then ran away afraid of what they helped create.

Pseudo and fictional religious elements continue because people (who could make a difference) run away afraid of what they helped create! or instead stay and keep mum afraid to fall in standing. I think such reasons are why people believe nothing will change with a religion, because they feel powerless to change anything! Some who quit will go so far to attack those who stay and have courage to do what they could not!

Some things HAVE changed, so it is not true that nothing will change. And nothing can change a religion more than the members and what they believe. How do you suppose a religion gets to be what it is? if not for a majority of members controlling the narrative?

I'm not afraid of the majority pushing pseudo history and religion. Read my (years of) posts if you doubt it.

fife

2022-03-09 00:32:13 UTC

Evidently then, history records a word spelled with the letters e, c, k, a, n, k, a, r (in that order) and after that came so many written descriptions about what "IT" was. Including so many words that were "gathered" by Paul Twitchell, the "Master Compiler"?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/z5LTQxOLgiI/m/I0rpvk2RAwAJ
What about Eckankar's Rebazar Tarzs then? How does he fit into the teachings of Eckankar?
"... He created the dialog with Rebazar Tarzs, in The Far Country, because this was a much more effective and interesting way of communicating, than simply pontificating. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/cHzE0Cdcfy4/M6ZJAPyvTNsJ
Much more effective way of plagiarizing and paraphrasing too? Doug?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/F6r7rkNpFak/m/cyqqOfvjBwAJ

I think a lot of the written teachings are important when they report about history. When they tell us where "Eckankar" (now a non-profit religion) came from. ESPECIALLY when they talk about who was / were the leader / leaders before Paul Twitchell, the founder. People were told about Rebazar Tarzs, but is that the truth? And is it true that Rebazar Tarzs belongs to an unbroken lineage of masters going all the way back to Gakko, from Venus?
"Ramaj was one of the first initiates in the ancient Order of the Vairagi. Before him was Dayaka, who was a great ECK Master in Lemuria. Then there was Kassapa, the living ECK Master who preceded the antediluvian disaster of Atlantis. The line can be traced all the way back to Gakko who came out of the heart of God into this world about six million years ago. The whole line of ECK Masters has descended from him in an unbroken lineage." [Based on: The Spiritual Notebook, by Paul Twitchell [d. 1971], Original copyright 1971, copyright transferred to ECKANKAR 1979, 10th printing 1983, pp. 196-197]
I just think it very well fair to state that the written Eckankar teachings are considered inferior to other "spiritual" teachings, and because a good amount of the written Eckankar teachings are doubtfully based on literal truth, but on literal fiction instead. And the truth is important and often superior to fiction because why?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/M5mZ2hfw3c0/m/WIdEPqlIAQAJ

BTW
Gakko 学校 noun. The Japanese word for "school" ... .
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Gakko+means&form=ANNTH1&refig=911f59e1a7ca48eb8103928cbb762b37
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%AD%A6%E6%A0%A1
Is that what it's all about then? Paul Twitchell's "form of school" where "anything goes"? Just a couple thoughts.

I wonder then if not a more pertinent question to ask: How did it, The Eckankar religion, happen?
As an aside, Did Eckankar, the religion, begin the same year (1970) that Paul Twitchell allegedly knowingly (like Buddha) drank poison? and then about one year later died?
"A very significant event in Paul's spiritual evolution took place in the summer of 1970. During a trip to Spain, he was poisoned. A young man, under the influence of the Kal Niranjan, slipped an extremely potent poison into Paul's citrus drink. Paul had walked into this individual's home with complete openness and an abounding love, and when he was handed the juice, he drank it. But he knew it would harm him, in the same way that Buddha did when he ate the tainted rice."
http://web.archive.org/web/20060830023713/http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

And yet after 35 years you still don't have enough self respect to quit.

Perhaps one contribution were the members who invested in making Eckankar a religion and then ran away afraid of what they helped create.
Pseudo and fictional religious elements continue because people (who could make a difference) run away afraid of what they helped create! or instead stay and keep mum afraid to fall in standing. I think such reasons are why people believe nothing will change with a religion, because they feel powerless to change anything! Some who quit will go so far to attack those who stay and have courage to do what they could not!
Some things HAVE changed, so it is not true that nothing will change. And nothing can change a religion more than the members and what they believe. How do you suppose a religion gets to be what it is? if not for a majority of members controlling the narrative?
I'm not afraid of the majority pushing pseudo history and religion. Read my (years of) posts if you doubt it.

I am interested in what you think about Eckankar today and how it has changed. But the membership is not in charge of it. HK made that abundantly clear years ago when he took it over and was getting it organized to his liking. "Eckankar is not a Congregational church" is one of the many things he had to say about that at the time.

Etznab

2022-03-09 01:20:30 UTC

Evidently then, history records a word spelled with the letters e, c, k, a, n, k, a, r (in that order) and after that came so many written descriptions about what "IT" was. Including so many words that were "gathered" by Paul Twitchell, the "Master Compiler"?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/z5LTQxOLgiI/m/I0rpvk2RAwAJ
What about Eckankar's Rebazar Tarzs then? How does he fit into the teachings of Eckankar?
"... He created the dialog with Rebazar Tarzs, in The Far Country, because this was a much more effective and interesting way of communicating, than simply pontificating. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/cHzE0Cdcfy4/M6ZJAPyvTNsJ
Much more effective way of plagiarizing and paraphrasing too? Doug?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/F6r7rkNpFak/m/cyqqOfvjBwAJ

I think a lot of the written teachings are important when they report about history. When they tell us where "Eckankar" (now a non-profit religion) came from. ESPECIALLY when they talk about who was / were the leader / leaders before Paul Twitchell, the founder. People were told about Rebazar Tarzs, but is that the truth? And is it true that Rebazar Tarzs belongs to an unbroken lineage of masters going all the way back to Gakko, from Venus?
"Ramaj was one of the first initiates in the ancient Order of the Vairagi. Before him was Dayaka, who was a great ECK Master in Lemuria. Then there was Kassapa, the living ECK Master who preceded the antediluvian disaster of Atlantis. The line can be traced all the way back to Gakko who came out of the heart of God into this world about six million years ago. The whole line of ECK Masters has descended from him in an unbroken lineage." [Based on: The Spiritual Notebook, by Paul Twitchell [d. 1971], Original copyright 1971, copyright transferred to ECKANKAR 1979, 10th printing 1983, pp. 196-197]
I just think it very well fair to state that the written Eckankar teachings are considered inferior to other "spiritual" teachings, and because a good amount of the written Eckankar teachings are doubtfully based on literal truth, but on literal fiction instead. And the truth is important and often superior to fiction because why?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/M5mZ2hfw3c0/m/WIdEPqlIAQAJ

BTW
Gakko 学校 noun. The Japanese word for "school" ... .
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Gakko+means&form=ANNTH1&refig=911f59e1a7ca48eb8103928cbb762b37
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%AD%A6%E6%A0%A1
Is that what it's all about then? Paul Twitchell's "form of school" where "anything goes"? Just a couple thoughts.

I wonder then if not a more pertinent question to ask: How did it, The Eckankar religion, happen?
As an aside, Did Eckankar, the religion, begin the same year (1970) that Paul Twitchell allegedly knowingly (like Buddha) drank poison? and then about one year later died?
"A very significant event in Paul's spiritual evolution took place in the summer of 1970. During a trip to Spain, he was poisoned. A young man, under the influence of the Kal Niranjan, slipped an extremely potent poison into Paul's citrus drink. Paul had walked into this individual's home with complete openness and an abounding love, and when he was handed the juice, he drank it. But he knew it would harm him, in the same way that Buddha did when he ate the tainted rice."
http://web.archive.org/web/20060830023713/http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

And yet after 35 years you still don't have enough self respect to quit.

Perhaps one contribution were the members who invested in making Eckankar a religion and then ran away afraid of what they helped create.
Pseudo and fictional religious elements continue because people (who could make a difference) run away afraid of what they helped create! or instead stay and keep mum afraid to fall in standing. I think such reasons are why people believe nothing will change with a religion, because they feel powerless to change anything! Some who quit will go so far to attack those who stay and have courage to do what they could not!
Some things HAVE changed, so it is not true that nothing will change. And nothing can change a religion more than the members and what they believe. How do you suppose a religion gets to be what it is? if not for a majority of members controlling the narrative?
I'm not afraid of the majority pushing pseudo history and religion. Read my (years of) posts if you doubt it.

Ask me what I think is true about Eckankar. That's what really matters, because the truth is ultimately in charge. Including all the people who know it. In a court of law you swear to tell the truth. Harold is no exception. What one thinks about Eckankar is secondary to what is true about Eckankar, IMHO.

Look at Paul Twitchell's time where so much was "made up".

Look at Darwin Gross' time where plagiarism (etc.) was denied.

Look at Harold Klemp's time where so much that was made up was admitted and so much that was (what Harold calls) borrowed was also admitted. BTW, I think that if one borrows something and then keeps it as their own, that is no longer called borrowing. That is called stealing!

There has been change over the years concerning truth vs. fiction and I am confident the trend will continue. As for When will Eckankar admit what was "borrowed" and from whom? I think that taken first has to be removed from any fictional made-up characters before it can be returned; credited to the author and book it was taken from. Not credited to an eck master instead.

Did Paul Twitchell borrow from other authors in his writings?

This is one of the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) on the official Eckankar website (which has recently this year changed somewhat).

"What about claims that the modern-day founder of Eckankar, Paul Twitchell, borrowed freely from other authors in writing his Eckankar books?

"The golden threads of the ECK teachings had been scattered around the world down through the ages. Some were in books and manuscripts no longer remembered or known by the general public.

"Remote writings, little-known truths, and the most accurate parts of what had been given in the past were gathered up by Paul Twitchell—honed, refined, and focused so the public could benefit directly from the pure ECK teachings today.

"He was a master compiler. Because of his work and his writings, the ageless teachings of the Light and Sound are now at your fingertips.

"Yet Paul's works are only a fraction of the many books of Eckankar. Sri Harold Klemp, the current Mahanta, the Living ECK Master, has authored over one hundred books on the teachings since he became the spiritual leader of Eckankar in 1981. His writings are the most current expression of Eckankar.

"For more about Paul Twitchell and the history of Eckankar, visit The Legacy of Paul Twitchell and the Paul Twitchell Archive."

https://web.archive.org/web/20201013142834/https://www.eckankar.org/FAQ/index.html#paultwitchell

"What about claims that the modern-day founder of Eckankar, Paul Twitchell, borrowed freely from other authors in writing his Eckankar books?"

(New version)

"Did Paul Twitchell borrow from other authors in his writings?"

One thing changed is the first word & first sentence for the new version answer. The word and sentence is simply "Yes."

https://www.eckankar.org/explore/faqs/

Here is another question and answer; which happened to be another change over the years.

"Did Paul Twitchell use other writers words and put his Eck masters names on them as if the Eck Master were saying them? Yes. [... .]"

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/F6r7rkNpFak/cyqqOfvjBwAJ

COUNT THAT AS TWO YESES CONCERNING THE TRUTH! (One by Doug. One by Harold / Eckankar)

Reference link: https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/ED57R0nKW68/m/jJsCZ8SRBwAJ

Etznab

2022-03-09 01:44:41 UTC

Evidently then, history records a word spelled with the letters e, c, k, a, n, k, a, r (in that order) and after that came so many written descriptions about what "IT" was. Including so many words that were "gathered" by Paul Twitchell, the "Master Compiler"?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/z5LTQxOLgiI/m/I0rpvk2RAwAJ
What about Eckankar's Rebazar Tarzs then? How does he fit into the teachings of Eckankar?
"... He created the dialog with Rebazar Tarzs, in The Far Country, because this was a much more effective and interesting way of communicating, than simply pontificating. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/cHzE0Cdcfy4/M6ZJAPyvTNsJ
Much more effective way of plagiarizing and paraphrasing too? Doug?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/F6r7rkNpFak/m/cyqqOfvjBwAJ

I think a lot of the written teachings are important when they report about history. When they tell us where "Eckankar" (now a non-profit religion) came from. ESPECIALLY when they talk about who was / were the leader / leaders before Paul Twitchell, the founder. People were told about Rebazar Tarzs, but is that the truth? And is it true that Rebazar Tarzs belongs to an unbroken lineage of masters going all the way back to Gakko, from Venus?
"Ramaj was one of the first initiates in the ancient Order of the Vairagi. Before him was Dayaka, who was a great ECK Master in Lemuria. Then there was Kassapa, the living ECK Master who preceded the antediluvian disaster of Atlantis. The line can be traced all the way back to Gakko who came out of the heart of God into this world about six million years ago. The whole line of ECK Masters has descended from him in an unbroken lineage." [Based on: The Spiritual Notebook, by Paul Twitchell [d. 1971], Original copyright 1971, copyright transferred to ECKANKAR 1979, 10th printing 1983, pp. 196-197]
I just think it very well fair to state that the written Eckankar teachings are considered inferior to other "spiritual" teachings, and because a good amount of the written Eckankar teachings are doubtfully based on literal truth, but on literal fiction instead. And the truth is important and often superior to fiction because why?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/M5mZ2hfw3c0/m/WIdEPqlIAQAJ

BTW
Gakko 学校 noun. The Japanese word for "school" ... .
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Gakko+means&form=ANNTH1&refig=911f59e1a7ca48eb8103928cbb762b37
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%AD%A6%E6%A0%A1
Is that what it's all about then? Paul Twitchell's "form of school" where "anything goes"? Just a couple thoughts.

I wonder then if not a more pertinent question to ask: How did it, The Eckankar religion, happen?
As an aside, Did Eckankar, the religion, begin the same year (1970) that Paul Twitchell allegedly knowingly (like Buddha) drank poison? and then about one year later died?
"A very significant event in Paul's spiritual evolution took place in the summer of 1970. During a trip to Spain, he was poisoned. A young man, under the influence of the Kal Niranjan, slipped an extremely potent poison into Paul's citrus drink. Paul had walked into this individual's home with complete openness and an abounding love, and when he was handed the juice, he drank it. But he knew it would harm him, in the same way that Buddha did when he ate the tainted rice."
http://web.archive.org/web/20060830023713/http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

And yet after 35 years you still don't have enough self respect to quit.

Perhaps one contribution were the members who invested in making Eckankar a religion and then ran away afraid of what they helped create.
Pseudo and fictional religious elements continue because people (who could make a difference) run away afraid of what they helped create! or instead stay and keep mum afraid to fall in standing. I think such reasons are why people believe nothing will change with a religion, because they feel powerless to change anything! Some who quit will go so far to attack those who stay and have courage to do what they could not!
Some things HAVE changed, so it is not true that nothing will change. And nothing can change a religion more than the members and what they believe. How do you suppose a religion gets to be what it is? if not for a majority of members controlling the narrative?
I'm not afraid of the majority pushing pseudo history and religion. Read my (years of) posts if you doubt it.

Ask me what I think is true about Eckankar. That's what really matters, because the truth is ultimately in charge. Including all the people who know it. In a court of law you swear to tell the truth. Harold is no exception. What one thinks about Eckankar is secondary to what is true about Eckankar, IMHO.
Look at Paul Twitchell's time where so much was "made up".
Look at Darwin Gross' time where plagiarism (etc.) was denied.
Look at Harold Klemp's time where so much that was made up was admitted and so much that was (what Harold calls) borrowed was also admitted. BTW, I think that if one borrows something and then keeps it as their own, that is no longer called borrowing. That is called stealing!
There has been change over the years concerning truth vs. fiction and I am confident the trend will continue. As for When will Eckankar admit what was "borrowed" and from whom? I think that taken first has to be removed from any fictional made-up characters before it can be returned; credited to the author and book it was taken from. Not credited to an eck master instead.
Did Paul Twitchell borrow from other authors in his writings?
This is one of the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) on the official Eckankar website (which has recently this year changed somewhat).
"What about claims that the modern-day founder of Eckankar, Paul Twitchell, borrowed freely from other authors in writing his Eckankar books?
"The golden threads of the ECK teachings had been scattered around the world down through the ages. Some were in books and manuscripts no longer remembered or known by the general public.
"Remote writings, little-known truths, and the most accurate parts of what had been given in the past were gathered up by Paul Twitchell—honed, refined, and focused so the public could benefit directly from the pure ECK teachings today.
"He was a master compiler. Because of his work and his writings, the ageless teachings of the Light and Sound are now at your fingertips.
"Yet Paul's works are only a fraction of the many books of Eckankar. Sri Harold Klemp, the current Mahanta, the Living ECK Master, has authored over one hundred books on the teachings since he became the spiritual leader of Eckankar in 1981. His writings are the most current expression of Eckankar.
"For more about Paul Twitchell and the history of Eckankar, visit The Legacy of Paul Twitchell and the Paul Twitchell Archive."
https://web.archive.org/web/20201013142834/https://www.eckankar.org/FAQ/index.html#paultwitchell
"What about claims that the modern-day founder of Eckankar, Paul Twitchell, borrowed freely from other authors in writing his Eckankar books?"
(New version)
"Did Paul Twitchell borrow from other authors in his writings?"
One thing changed is the first word & first sentence for the new version answer. The word and sentence is simply "Yes."
https://www.eckankar.org/explore/faqs/
Here is another question and answer; which happened to be another change over the years.
"Did Paul Twitchell use other writers words and put his Eck masters names on them as if the Eck Master were saying them? Yes. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/F6r7rkNpFak/cyqqOfvjBwAJ
COUNT THAT AS TWO YESES CONCERNING THE TRUTH! (One by Doug. One by Harold / Eckankar)
Reference link: https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/ED57R0nKW68/m/jJsCZ8SRBwAJ

There was a time when Doug Marman argued "I can't see a string of identical words any longer than 3 words long."

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/6Q447ti-UJg/99gyjJFv1vMJ

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/-65sWYM9b6M/m/zLrbdAacBwAJ

"A long time ago 2% plagiarism was the mantra. Then I asked Aloha Rich if he even read the most heavily plagiarized book; The Path Of The Masters. His answer was no."

So you see, now it is admitted openly. Gathered, borrowed, compiled, copied, plagiarized, etc. ... It appears in published papers even.

"[...]

"David Lane, a philosophy professor at Mt. San Antonio College in the Los Angeles area and author of several Eckankar books, said Eckankar isn’t dangerous or cultlike but “should be more honest about its origins.” Lane alleges that paragraphs in several books by Paul Twitchell, Eckankar’s founder, were copied from other religious texts.

"Member Kristy Walker has heard the plagiarism accusations before and isn’t troubled by them. It wouldn’t really matter because, she said, 'I’ve had so many experiences on my own.' [... .]"

https://www.startribune.com/new-age-religion-eckankar-makes-its-home-in-chanhassen/384356371/

Another change is how much easier it is for people to navigate a way toward the truth by actually looking at the quote comparisons.

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/q-ZMPeLApug/m/kTO_Re1LBgAJ

That was only a small sample. Now one can simply type the numbers 41391720 in this here a.r.e. archive.

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/search?q=41391720

Add an eck masters name like Rebazar Tarzs

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/search?q=41391720%20Rebazar%20Tarzs

Add a book name

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/search?q=41391720%20The%20Far%20Country

Etc.

These are all changes concerning the truth about Eckankar. It doesn't mean Eckankar writings aren't good. Rather it means that now people can look at the writings in context to the books and authors "borrowed" from.

Etznab

2022-03-09 01:52:43 UTC

Evidently then, history records a word spelled with the letters e, c, k, a, n, k, a, r (in that order) and after that came so many written descriptions about what "IT" was. Including so many words that were "gathered" by Paul Twitchell, the "Master Compiler"?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/z5LTQxOLgiI/m/I0rpvk2RAwAJ
What about Eckankar's Rebazar Tarzs then? How does he fit into the teachings of Eckankar?
"... He created the dialog with Rebazar Tarzs, in The Far Country, because this was a much more effective and interesting way of communicating, than simply pontificating. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/cHzE0Cdcfy4/M6ZJAPyvTNsJ
Much more effective way of plagiarizing and paraphrasing too? Doug?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/F6r7rkNpFak/m/cyqqOfvjBwAJ

I think a lot of the written teachings are important when they report about history. When they tell us where "Eckankar" (now a non-profit religion) came from. ESPECIALLY when they talk about who was / were the leader / leaders before Paul Twitchell, the founder. People were told about Rebazar Tarzs, but is that the truth? And is it true that Rebazar Tarzs belongs to an unbroken lineage of masters going all the way back to Gakko, from Venus?
"Ramaj was one of the first initiates in the ancient Order of the Vairagi. Before him was Dayaka, who was a great ECK Master in Lemuria. Then there was Kassapa, the living ECK Master who preceded the antediluvian disaster of Atlantis. The line can be traced all the way back to Gakko who came out of the heart of God into this world about six million years ago. The whole line of ECK Masters has descended from him in an unbroken lineage." [Based on: The Spiritual Notebook, by Paul Twitchell [d. 1971], Original copyright 1971, copyright transferred to ECKANKAR 1979, 10th printing 1983, pp. 196-197]
I just think it very well fair to state that the written Eckankar teachings are considered inferior to other "spiritual" teachings, and because a good amount of the written Eckankar teachings are doubtfully based on literal truth, but on literal fiction instead. And the truth is important and often superior to fiction because why?
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/M5mZ2hfw3c0/m/WIdEPqlIAQAJ

BTW
Gakko 学校 noun. The Japanese word for "school" ... .
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Gakko+means&form=ANNTH1&refig=911f59e1a7ca48eb8103928cbb762b37
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%AD%A6%E6%A0%A1
Is that what it's all about then? Paul Twitchell's "form of school" where "anything goes"? Just a couple thoughts.

I wonder then if not a more pertinent question to ask: How did it, The Eckankar religion, happen?
As an aside, Did Eckankar, the religion, begin the same year (1970) that Paul Twitchell allegedly knowingly (like Buddha) drank poison? and then about one year later died?
"A very significant event in Paul's spiritual evolution took place in the summer of 1970. During a trip to Spain, he was poisoned. A young man, under the influence of the Kal Niranjan, slipped an extremely potent poison into Paul's citrus drink. Paul had walked into this individual's home with complete openness and an abounding love, and when he was handed the juice, he drank it. But he knew it would harm him, in the same way that Buddha did when he ate the tainted rice."
http://web.archive.org/web/20060830023713/http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

And yet after 35 years you still don't have enough self respect to quit.

Perhaps one contribution were the members who invested in making Eckankar a religion and then ran away afraid of what they helped create.
Pseudo and fictional religious elements continue because people (who could make a difference) run away afraid of what they helped create! or instead stay and keep mum afraid to fall in standing. I think such reasons are why people believe nothing will change with a religion, because they feel powerless to change anything! Some who quit will go so far to attack those who stay and have courage to do what they could not!
Some things HAVE changed, so it is not true that nothing will change. And nothing can change a religion more than the members and what they believe. How do you suppose a religion gets to be what it is? if not for a majority of members controlling the narrative?
I'm not afraid of the majority pushing pseudo history and religion. Read my (years of) posts if you doubt it.

Ask me what I think is true about Eckankar. That's what really matters, because the truth is ultimately in charge. Including all the people who know it. In a court of law you swear to tell the truth. Harold is no exception. What one thinks about Eckankar is secondary to what is true about Eckankar, IMHO.
Look at Paul Twitchell's time where so much was "made up".
Look at Darwin Gross' time where plagiarism (etc.) was denied.
Look at Harold Klemp's time where so much that was made up was admitted and so much that was (what Harold calls) borrowed was also admitted. BTW, I think that if one borrows something and then keeps it as their own, that is no longer called borrowing. That is called stealing!
There has been change over the years concerning truth vs. fiction and I am confident the trend will continue. As for When will Eckankar admit what was "borrowed" and from whom? I think that taken first has to be removed from any fictional made-up characters before it can be returned; credited to the author and book it was taken from. Not credited to an eck master instead.
Did Paul Twitchell borrow from other authors in his writings?
This is one of the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) on the official Eckankar website (which has recently this year changed somewhat).
"What about claims that the modern-day founder of Eckankar, Paul Twitchell, borrowed freely from other authors in writing his Eckankar books?
"The golden threads of the ECK teachings had been scattered around the world down through the ages. Some were in books and manuscripts no longer remembered or known by the general public.
"Remote writings, little-known truths, and the most accurate parts of what had been given in the past were gathered up by Paul Twitchell—honed, refined, and focused so the public could benefit directly from the pure ECK teachings today.
"He was a master compiler. Because of his work and his writings, the ageless teachings of the Light and Sound are now at your fingertips.
"Yet Paul's works are only a fraction of the many books of Eckankar. Sri Harold Klemp, the current Mahanta, the Living ECK Master, has authored over one hundred books on the teachings since he became the spiritual leader of Eckankar in 1981. His writings are the most current expression of Eckankar.
"For more about Paul Twitchell and the history of Eckankar, visit The Legacy of Paul Twitchell and the Paul Twitchell Archive."
https://web.archive.org/web/20201013142834/https://www.eckankar.org/FAQ/index.html#paultwitchell
"What about claims that the modern-day founder of Eckankar, Paul Twitchell, borrowed freely from other authors in writing his Eckankar books?"
(New version)
"Did Paul Twitchell borrow from other authors in his writings?"
One thing changed is the first word & first sentence for the new version answer. The word and sentence is simply "Yes."
https://www.eckankar.org/explore/faqs/
Here is another question and answer; which happened to be another change over the years.
"Did Paul Twitchell use other writers words and put his Eck masters names on them as if the Eck Master were saying them? Yes. [... .]"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/F6r7rkNpFak/cyqqOfvjBwAJ
COUNT THAT AS TWO YESES CONCERNING THE TRUTH! (One by Doug. One by Harold / Eckankar)
Reference link: https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/ED57R0nKW68/m/jJsCZ8SRBwAJ

There was a time when Doug Marman argued "I can't see a string of identical words any longer than 3 words long."
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/6Q447ti-UJg/99gyjJFv1vMJ
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/-65sWYM9b6M/m/zLrbdAacBwAJ
"A long time ago 2% plagiarism was the mantra. Then I asked Aloha Rich if he even read the most heavily plagiarized book; The Path Of The Masters. His answer was no."
So you see, now it is admitted openly. Gathered, borrowed, compiled, copied, plagiarized, etc. ... It appears in published papers even.
"[...]
"David Lane, a philosophy professor at Mt. San Antonio College in the Los Angeles area and author of several Eckankar books, said Eckankar isn’t dangerous or cultlike but “should be more honest about its origins.” Lane alleges that paragraphs in several books by Paul Twitchell, Eckankar’s founder, were copied from other religious texts.
"Member Kristy Walker has heard the plagiarism accusations before and isn’t troubled by them. It wouldn’t really matter because, she said, 'I’ve had so many experiences on my own.' [... .]"
https://www.startribune.com/new-age-religion-eckankar-makes-its-home-in-chanhassen/384356371/
Another change is how much easier it is for people to navigate a way toward the truth by actually looking at the quote comparisons.
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/c/q-ZMPeLApug/m/kTO_Re1LBgAJ
That was only a small sample. Now one can simply type the numbers 41391720 in this here a.r.e. archive.
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/search?q=41391720
Add an eck masters name like Rebazar Tarzs
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/search?q=41391720%20Rebazar%20Tarzs
Add a book name
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.eckankar/search?q=41391720%20The%20Far%20Country
Etc.
These are all changes concerning the truth about Eckankar. It doesn't mean Eckankar writings aren't good. Rather it means that now people can look at the writings in context to the books and authors "borrowed" from.

When more and more of the truth comes out, Eckists, Eckankar and the leaders of Eckankar will inevitably have to embrace it less they can't handle the truth.

It is no longer so popular to deny and / or cover up the truth concerning these things. IMO this is a BIG change. A big change concerning Eckankar, and a change like a growing hole in the dike of fabricated fiction.

Etznab

2022-03-11 00:54:38 UTC